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 Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS

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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 12:35 am

Wow, that was way too simple and I was over-thinking it way too much.

Robin's basic/weak attacks "Basic spells"

Strong attacks "El" class spells

Smash attacks "Arc" class spells

Top "B" rank class spell are invoked/casted from fully charged attacks.

When the tomes are depleted, he switches to the Levin Sword.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 12:46 am

David Vincent for Robin's voice was a good choice, I may actually use him because of that. Lucina with long hair is also fantastic, but I suppose they wouldn't have done the mask and short hair thing because Marth is part of the cast already. I think the FE cast is a little overkill at this point, I still don't think Marth and friend fighter guy should've been in it, but whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 12:57 am

Arn wrote:
They are negleting Golden Sun or what? I'm not liking this amount of FE characters.

I second this notion.
Give me the GS love.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 2:00 am

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/07/13/rayman-trophy-super-smash-bros/

This is cool and all, but considering how much Ubisoft's been giving the Wii U the shaft lately, it seems like a strange decision.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 2:30 am

Moontoon wrote:
Omg so happy right now ;w; Robin, Lucina.
I'm fangirling so hard over this it's not even funny.

Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 A8gekjY
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DylDawg
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 7:33 am

Afyer playing a LOT of Xenoblade, I hope the rumor/leak of Shulk being in does come true.

Or if not Shulk, Reyn. Cause Reyn time.
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Slivendiferious
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 9:06 am

We already have eight swordians:

Mii Fighter
Toon Link
Link
Lucina
Ike
Marth
Robin
Pitt

Potentially two more with Meta Knight and/ or Ganondorf with a sword...
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BlazingFiddlesticks

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 12:01 pm

Wow, I think that's the second time I've inadvertently double-posted, wish users could delete them for the sake of cleaning that up.

Taiyz wrote:
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/07/13/rayman-trophy-super-smash-bros/

This is cool and all, but considering how much Ubisoft's been giving the Wii U the shaft lately, it seems like a strange decision.

Here's the thing, though, Ubisoft is only able to give Nintendo the shaft if at one point they had actually cared, unlike every other major Western Third Party after E3 2012. Ā I mean, let's be generous and say that the Wii U has 20 worthwhile retail games at the very most, a fourth of that would be from Ubisoft. Ā If anything, we should take this as a miniscule suggestion that Ubisoft's statement of "We'll make more Wii U games when Nintendo gives us more people to buy them" can be taken at face value, rather than the same PR code for "Your machine flopped, all the time we spent working with it was wasted, and we can't even make cheap games to make a quick buck anymore, good riddance." every other publisher has issued. Ā Just maybe.

I mean, I look the fool by trying to interpret the professional relationships of corporations, but to criticize Ubisoft for dropping the Wii U when they were the only one who actually supported it in the first place is just backwards.
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 4:01 pm

Taiyz wrote:
Lucina with long hair is also fantastic, but I suppose they wouldn't have done the mask and short hair thing because Marth is part of the cast already. I think the FE cast is a little overkill at this point, I still don't think Marth and friend fighter guy should've been in it, but whatever.

...So the female Marth has a long hair - big deal?

Also, probably a taunt or entrance animation:
Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 5lxik4

...Also, "friend fighter guy"? What ignorance is this that eludes me? Marth is pretty much a staple in the FE series and representative, I think he's a permanent member of the Smash roster now.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMTue Jul 15, 2014 7:51 pm

BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:
to criticize Ubisoft for dropping the Wii U when they were the only one who actually supported it in the first place is just backwards.
I don't think ZombiU really counts as support, at least no more than what Activision's been doing with multi-plats, or what Square-Enix and WB did with Deus Ex and Batman. The big game that Ubisoft was hyping up was Rayman Legends, and the Wii U basically got the worst version of that game after it was delayed well beyond its release date to become a multi-plat release. Then Assassin's Creed IV received absolutely no downloadable content.

Celestial Phoenix wrote:
Taiyz wrote:
Lucina with long hair is also fantastic, but I suppose they wouldn't have done the mask and short hair thing because Marth is part of the cast already. I think the FE cast is a little overkill at this point, I still don't think Marth and friend fighter guy should've been in it, but whatever.

...So the female Marth has a long hair - big deal?

Also, probably a taunt or entrance animation:
https://2img.net/h/oi60.tinypic.com/5lxik4.jpg

...Also, "friend fighter guy"? What ignorance is this that eludes me? Marth is pretty much a staple in the FE series and representative, I think he's a permanent member of the Smash roster now.
Yeah, because Lucina's identity is technically a spoiler, I didn't expect to see her without the mask and short hair, being called "Marth?" or something goofy like that, maybe with the real Marth as an extra skin. Also the long hair is attractive.

I couldn't remember Mike's name, and now I'm being annoying on purpose because you pointed it out. Also we'll have to see how differently Marth and Lucina fight, I was expecting Nintendo to clamp down on clones and stuff. Lucina just seems like a better fit amongst all the new characters.
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 12:16 am

Smash never really respected canon features of the game, let alone spoilers. Like Samus being a girl for example, despite how old that mystery is, isn't necessary. Lucina's identity isn't really a secret worth keeping.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 12:46 am

But FE Awakening is like 2 years old, where-as Metroid was over 20 years old when Brawl came out. The same kinda goes for Shiek and Zelda in Melee, OoT was significantly older than FEA is right now.
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Scrawlers

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 4:09 am

Yeah, the statute of limitations on spoilers is usually at least three years, though I guess that's somewhat of an unofficial rule.
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Shy Link

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 5:44 am

OoT was 3 years old when Melee was released, while Awakening will be about 2 1/2 when the new Smash hits. Both are/were kinda in the outskirts of Spoilerville. Though Shiek's identity was a much bigger spoiler, considering it wasn't revealed until just before the climax of the game, whereas "Marth" being unmasked happened within the opening few chapters of Awakening.

And while it's not surprising at all that Lucina would be a Marth clone, the degree to which she's a clone really kind of is, considering they were supposed to be cutting down on clones. All 4 of her specials look exactly the same, as do her aerials. She even has an identical idle animation, which is REALLY weird considering even Dr Mario and Pichu had those to set them apart from the character they mimicked.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 5:51 am

Either way, my point was just that her or Marth are oddball additions depending on how you view them. I also would've rather had Chrom instead of Ike, but whatevs.
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 6:49 pm

Not this again, and I thought I was sated when I trolled so many Chrom fanboys:

Chrom. Doesn't. Work. As. A. Smash. Fighter.

His swordplay is uninspired, unoriginal, and limited in animations compared to Lucina(Lucina actually boasts a unique swordsman stance in Awakening, but her swordplay is not that impressive either)and the rest of the FE reps, how would they make him a unique fighter?

Chrom is not as brutish as Ike, he has a bit of class - slight bit. Ike brought the iconic Aether skill into FE as well as many of his moves were referenced from his games. Ike is also one of the few main characters in a FE game that isn't of royalty, if at all; weapon discipline does vary for each individual.

The end of that recent(and cheesy)reveal trailer was Sakurai's way of saying, "No Chrom for you, but he makes a cameo in Robin's FS!", and a smile sprout from my face, I'm glad Chrom didn't make it in.

Sakurai isn't an idiot guys, if you truly wanted a character fighter in this game, you need to THINK on how he/she would fit in it. Chances are, Sakurai and I have explored Chrom's functionality, and don't be surprised if Chrom is in the game's files for the dataminers to find.
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Scrawlers

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 8:24 pm

Chrom would work better as a Smash Bros character than bloody Pac-Man. If Sakurai can make Pac-Man, a character who has never actually seen combat in the game* he's from, a competent character in a fighting game, then he could easily do the same for a character who has actually seen combat in the game they're from. Chrom would have worked out just fine, had Sakurai gone ahead and decided to implement him.

(*I'm speaking mostly for the original arcade games. I did play the Pac-Man platformers back in the day, but they were so horrendously godawful in every single way I've done my absolute best to block them from memory. So if Pac-Man "fought enemies" in those games, I don't remember it.)


Last edited by Scrawlers on Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 8:42 pm

I don't care for Pac-Man neither, but Smash4 development is being held at Namco, it was...fated.
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Scrawlers

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 11:22 pm

But that isn't the point, though. The point is that you said:

Celestial Phoenix wrote:
Chrom. Doesn't. Work. As. A. Smash. Fighter.

And I pointed out that, looking at him before Sakurai integrated him, neither does Pac-Man. In fact, there is less reasoning (aside from Namco's involvement) to include a character like Pac-Man in a fighting game than there is to include a character like Chrom. Whether you as an individual find Chrom to be boring is irrelevant; the fact is that Chrome is from an RPG series where combat is the main focus and has, in his game, entered combat. That is more than Pac-Man can say, most likely even if you do include his platformers that I found to be hideously unplayable even as a child with low standards. Well, lower.

Chrom would have been a fine inclusion, and likely only wasn't included because there were other characters that tickled Sakurai's fancy more. It has nothing to do with Chrom "not working" as a Smash character.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMWed Jul 16, 2014 11:41 pm

Quote :
His swordplay is uninspired, unoriginal, and limited in animations compared to Lucina(Lucina actually boasts a unique swordsman stance in Awakening, but her swordplay is not that impressive either)and the rest of the FE reps, how would they make him a unique fighter?

Marth barely had a fighting style to speak of in FE1 and 3, and they managed to create one from scratch for him in Melee. A fighting style that barely resembles any animation he's had in any Fire Emblem game he's appeared in before or since. If they wanted to give Chrom a unique style that contradicted his actual in-game animations from Awakening, they could have done so.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care that Chrom's not in at all. I'm not a big fan of Awakening, and I think Robin is clearly the better choice for creating a diverse roster. I'm just saying, not having an original fighting style never stopped them in the past.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMThu Jul 17, 2014 12:29 am

Celestial Phoenix wrote:
Not this again, and I thought I was sated when I trolled so many Chrom fanboys:

...

Chances are, Sakurai and I have explored Chrom's functionality, and don't be surprised if Chrom is in the game's files for the dataminers to find.
Wow, what an ego.

Considering that they JUST introduced another clone after attempting to get rid of them, you can't really say that Chrom doesn't fit anymore.

You can't really say that a given character won't work as a Smash fighter, Scrawlers and Shy Link have listed great examples. I mean Little Mac is in the game and all he does in his games is dodge and punch but he suddenly has over a dozen unique moves.

...

...

WII FIT TRAINER IS IN THE GAME
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMThu Jul 17, 2014 1:29 am

Ego? I would call it that. But realistically, I would say it's frustration after dealing with so many ignorant Chrom fanboys seeking fanservice than a fighter.

I don't know what you're getting your panties in a twist over Wii Fit Trainer, Taiyz. Sakurai in the past has stated in an interview regarding Wii Fit Trainer's supposed controversy of his/her appearance in the roster that he wanted to put in a character that no one would expect. Did you forget how he works?

Little Mac is a poor excuse against my argument. I think he was meant to be in Brawl? I can't remember honestly.

Shy Link wrote:
Marth barely had a fighting style to speak of in FE1 and 3, and they managed to create one from scratch for him in Melee. A fighting style that barely resembles any animation he's had in any Fire Emblem game he's appeared in before or since. If they wanted to give Chrom a unique style that contradicted his actual in-game animations from Awakening, they could have done so.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care that Chrom's not in at all. I'm not a big fan of Awakening, and I think Robin is clearly the better choice for creating a diverse roster. I'm just saying, not having an original fighting style never stopped them in the past.

That's a solid argument for this debate.

I still don't believe Chrom would bring ANYTHING new as a FE rep and as a fighter to make him different enough from both Ike and Marth(probably why Lucina appears to be a clone of Marth), am I doubting their originality on making Chrom a unique fighter? Yes.

Why Sakurai settled with Lucina and not Chrom I don't know(There is a hunch that a third blue-haired swordsMAN would appear pretty lazy on their end), but the fact that Lucina is pretty much a clone to Marth in what seems to be the amount of what differentiates between Fox and Falco - I think she is that kind of fighter clone. It is a little disappointing honestly considering the effort Sakurai has been expressing he has put into the game so far despite his amazing development skills, you'd think he would put in more effort in making unique fighters. I'm well aware of Toon Link already confirmed for the roster.

If I were to put Chrom in the roster, I would see him as that "in-between" fighter that's faster than Ike, but slower than Marth. Something that I find hard to imagine working in this.
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Scrawlers

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMThu Jul 17, 2014 5:19 am

Celestial Phoenix wrote:
But realistically, I would say it's frustration after dealing with so many ignorant Chrom fanboys seeking fanservice than a fighter.

Why does that frustrate you? Let's pretend, for a minute, that Chrom would merely be fanservice and wouldn't be a good character at all no matter what Sakurai did. Let's pretend that a character who has faced combat in his game would be a completely illogical choice for a fanservice fighting game (because as great as Smash Bros is, it's pure fanservice and everyone knows it). Even going by that hypothetical, that Chrom would be pure fanservice, who cares? What does it honestly hurt you that someone enjoys Chrom and wants him included? How does that make someone ignorant, that they enjoy a character and would like to see more of said character in a really popular fighting game? What is it worth you getting frustrated and calling names for? I'm honestly curious why people wanting Chrom's inclusion has you so upset.

Celestial Phoenix wrote:
I don't know what you're getting your panties in a twist over Wii Fit Trainer, Taiyz. Sakurai in the past has stated in an interview regarding Wii Fit Trainer's supposed controversy of his/her appearance in the roster that he wanted to put in a character that no one would expect. Did you forget how he works?

Taiyz doesn't have any article of clothing twisted as far as I'm aware, but you've proven the point everyone in this conversation except you is making: that it doesn't matter if someone is a logical choice for a fighting game or not, that any character can be a good Smash character. Wii Fit Trainer is the exact opposite of what you'd normally expect from a fighting game participant, and yet she looks like she'll be amazing. Chrom, meanwhile, is exactly what you would expect from a fighting game participant, and he could have been amazing too. That is the entire point. You are arguing, with finality, that Chrom would have been an illogical, awful choice (and only offering a "well, I could maybe make it work" suggestion as an afterthought). Everyone else here is arguing that Chrom could have worked and that Sakurai and everyone else at Project Sora have already proven that they can take characters that most would say make no sense and make them excellent fighters. That is the point that you helped to prove in your own counterargument.

I honestly have no stakes on whether or not Chrom should have been included. To be honest, as I've already stated in this thread, I feel we're overdosed on FE characters--but then, I'm not a Fire Emblem fan, so I admit there's bias there as well. But to say that a character from an RPG who is known to engage in combat wouldn't be a good character for a fanservice fighting game boggles my mind; and to be frustrated and upset by others wanting his inclusion enough that you admit both to said frustration and to trolling his fans boggle it further. People like what they like, they support the characters they love in games they enjoy, and fans wishing for the inclusion of characters or replacement of other characters is nothing to get upset about. It doesn't hurt you or anyone else.
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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMThu Jul 17, 2014 8:20 am

You aren't even raising points CP, even if Mac was supposed to be in Brawl, it doesn't change my point in that he's kind of an odd choice given the source material. You're also twisting my words, I don't give a shit how outlandish a character is, in fact Wii Fit Trainer is one of my favourite additions because of that! (Scrawlers understood my point perfectly.) YOU are the one who claims to care if a given character has passed or failed your arbitrary checklist of Smash Bros. suitability qualifications.

Also I'm not even a Chrom fan, let alone a Fire Emblem fan, I just think that Ike is a really boring choice; Marth I can understand though the clone element still sucks, but Chrom was in a more recent and IMO more impactful title than Ike, and he's got da Mercer factor.
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Celestial Phoenix

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS - Page 7 07v2DaMThu Jul 17, 2014 12:39 pm

For someone calling me egotistical, Taiyz, you're certainly showing how sensitive yours is. Sometimes, I wonder if you guys are nit-picking for the sheer fun of it and not actually reading, you both are confronting me instead of debating on the choice of the matter which is, imo, a more worthwhile piece for discussion.

Let us explore on why Sakurai settled with Lucina and not Chrom, but first, It shouldn't even be that much of a bewilderment that Ike stayed in the roster, imo. Yes, I mained Ike in Brawl but he is a fighter that fits "snuggly" in the roster for his playstyle, and likely not just out of fan desire.

Also up for potential discussion: What would Chrom bring to the roster as a individual "not clone" character fighter.
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