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 Regenerating health.

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Abicion
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PostSubject: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:02 am

What are your thoughts on modern game design?
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King Cat the Sixth

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:09 am

*countless bullets in body* it's okay, it'll go away in a minute

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:14 pm

In turn based games it should be a skill and should only heal you with small amounts at a time. If it is a passive skill, it should be removable (debuff, or break the item which grants the ability), if it is active, it should still be removable, but it would be less important. If it were active, it would probably only last a couple of turns.

In real time games there're two ways you could go about it, in my opinion:

1. Heal back to full health in a hearbeat when out of combat and out of danger.
2. Have short bursts of "regen" in which you heal back a bit of your health over a period of time, instead of instantaneously. It would be like drinking a classic potion, but it would grant regen for 20 seconds with 5 hp per second, instead of gaining 100 hp immediately.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:06 pm

It's realistic.

As in a realistic concept that's multiplied exponentially where it's not realistic anymore. Bonus points if only non-human characters have it.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:10 pm

It's alright, as long as it balances out.

Like in the Ys games, you can regenerate your health by standing still, but it's balanced out by the fact that you could die easily from normal enemies if you aren't careful enough.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:07 pm

In Valkyria Chronicles, a unit's HP recovers about 20%-ish give or take every turn, though you could die within a turn if you're surrounded by Shocktroopers or get sniped.

I'm fine with HP regen, though as said:

King Cat the Sixth wrote:
*countless bullets in body* it's okay, it'll go away in a minute

CoD at it's finest.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:47 pm

Stupid most times. The only time I found it acceptable was in Ys I (and I think II had it too). And in Ys I it didn't work when you were fighting bosses.
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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:46 pm

TimeFactor wrote:
It's realistic.

As in a realistic concept that's multiplied exponentially where it's not realistic anymore.
Which is basically modern video games in a nutshell. People need to acknowledge that while realism is great, sure, too much realism is not fun anymore. It's the reason why anti-material sniper rifle rounds don't instantly turn your guy's torso into meat slurry, an easy-to-use one-hit-kill weapon isn't balanced.


I think people already know that I'm in favour of regenerating health, even in shooters. The simple reason is that, you can balance health just like any gameplay element, regenerating or no. Generally in a lot of shooters with health packs, I'm not a fan of how they're balanced (action games where enemies typically drop health at random, or can be killed in certain ways to heal you are generally fine though.) There are some games that I'm totally fine with, but some games where I'm reloading checkpoints because I've got one health pack left and you never know when you'll really need it. With regenerating health, you can at least take that management out of the situation. It might reduce strategy (though there are still many multiplayer games that feature healing items paired with really slow regenerating health, like modern Battlefields) but it's also generally easier to tweak and balance.

I'm not gonna deny that regenerating health generally makes games easier, but at the same time I'd rather developers focus on things like gunplay, vehicle handling, gadgets and map design rather than figuring out a realistic healing system.


Also it's just generally part of my personality. If I see a chunk taken out of my health bar, I wanna fill that up. I walk around with the hella-slow regen rings in Dark Souls II specifically so that I'm always getting closer to max health.

TL;DR: I like regenerating health, but it can and should be balanced better.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Tue May 13, 2014 10:40 am

I hate regen health the way it's handled in almost all modern shooters, just takes the concept of resource management and throws it out the window. Who cares how you do in a firefight as long as you don't die?

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Tue May 13, 2014 6:03 pm

On the subject of regenerating health, Jase and I were playing Lost Planet 2 recently which handles regenerating health in a really intelligent way.

First off, your health will not regenerate without healing weapons (regen grenades, second mode of Injection Gun II, which will take a long time to acquire) or T-Energy. T-Energy will passively restore your health roughly 3 seconds after taking damage, but very slowly. You can expedite the process by pressing and holding start while not being attacked, but while doing so all you can do is walk. This speeds up the regeneration immesely.

The thing is, T-Energy is a resource for many things. Energy weapons, piloting mechs, opening up certain boxes in the game world, and if you don't have a specific ability equipped, you simply bleed T-Energy constantly. Hell, in some locations you actually take damage if you're out of T-Energy. You can even give T-Energy by equipping the T-Energy injector and firing the stuff at a friend.

In this way, there's still resource management, there's still a requirement to be "in the clear" to patch yourself up, and most importantly there are limitations.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Tue May 13, 2014 6:26 pm


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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Tue May 13, 2014 10:07 pm

I should make a game where every time you're shot, your character's viewpoint jerks around violently to look at the exact gruesome wound that they just acquired, while screaming so loud that it actually hurts to listen to. That'll be a lot more realistic than red vision, gamers will love it!

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 14, 2014 12:44 pm

Taiyz wrote:
I should make a game where every time you're shot, your character's viewpoint jerks around violently to look at the exact gruesome wound that they just acquired, while screaming so loud that it actually hurts to listen to. That'll be a lot more realistic than red vision, gamers will love it!
Needs MGS3 healing screen.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 14, 2014 12:52 pm

That only works in a third-person context. You bring up a good point though, in this day and age we should be able to see characters' wounds reflected on the actual model. Wounds that continue to bleed and redden the character's clothes, arrows that need to be broken and pulled out, etc.

Last gen was when we finally saw games incorporate different models for equipment and weapons very consistently, so this generation should be all about showing damage to them.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 14, 2014 2:32 pm

The problem is not reaching "realism" but just at least mid-term, after all it's a video-game. Getting shot on the leg and getting red eyes is stupid.

Just throw in something like this:

Get shot on the leg/foot and you hobble for a few seconds, if on the arm/hand and you are forced to shoot with the other. this would add a bit of strategy to the gameplay too.
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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 14, 2014 7:52 pm

At that point you may as well use the body indicator from SWAT 4 (and maybe earlier ones.) Look up Spoony's LP, he demonstrates how annoying it can be.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 21, 2014 12:24 am

The new Wolfenstein has segmented regenerating health. It splits your health in 20s. Being at 20 health is fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 21, 2014 3:17 am

From what I've seen you can even go over 100 health, up to 130 but anything above that ticks downward, and rather quickly, too.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 21, 2014 10:35 am

I've seen someone with 160 health, you can get permanent health upgrades throughout the game.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Wed May 21, 2014 7:11 pm

Yeah, there are permanent health boosts. They're not easy to find, though. I've managed to find 2 so far. It doesn't help much if you don't have armor.. Enemies tear through you pretty fast.

I just noticed the health regen only works up to 100 health. My max is currently 120 and its not going back to that.
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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Fri May 23, 2014 9:03 am

So how is The New Order? Is it actually really good, or a pure rental game? That laser cutter looks fancy.

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PostSubject: Re: Regenerating health.   Sat May 24, 2014 12:46 am

Its pretty great, I just finished it today. Its very reminiscent of FPS games from the late 90s, early 00s. There's dual wielding, lots of secret areas, enemies that aren't very intelligent (the old bottleneck strategy works really well here) fast character movement, no need to aim down sight (though its there if you want it) and only a minimal amount of scripted events (no silly QTEs here). There's basic stealth elements as well. Thankfully, its optional, but I enjoyed it. Sneaking around shanking stupid Nazis is very satisfying. You also get throwing knives (but BJ can't throw them very far), and a silenced pistol.
In areas with Commanders, if they call for help, you'll fight more enemies then usual, but thankfully there's no situations with endlessly respawning enemies.

There's a few bosses in the game, too. Each one has certain trick to beating them, you can't just strafe around them, shooting them until they die.

There's also a Perk system as well. If you complete challenges from this menu, you'll get perks to help you. None of them are particularly game-changing, but they help a bit.
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