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 Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia

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Twinrehz

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PostSubject: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:40 pm

I know I made a somewhat similar thread, but seriously, it is IMPOSSIBLE to beat the bosses in this game! I get my ass kicked, handed to me, shredded to pieces, beaten down and then have my reloaded ass broken in half and annihilated.

I understand that bosses are meant to be difficult. I do not understand that bosses are meant to be impossible. On EVERY.SINGLE.LITTLE.BOSSFIGHT in this game, I've had to set the difficulty to easy, because otherwise I'm not going to progress further in the story. It really does not help that each boss is preceded by a long fuckoff cut scene, making it a total bore just to GET to the damn boss.

Seriously, what am I doing wrong? Have I not focused enough on getting gear? Is it lack of artes? Am I missing skills? Or am I totally clueless as to what I'm doing? I just don't get it. I don't WANT to set difficulty to easy, but I don't want to be stuck on a bossfight where it doesn't even look like I have the slightest chance of ever beating him. I could have understood the difficulty if this was my second playthrough, but it's not, it's my first. And I lose faith in the game when the difficulty goes in spirals, mobs are basically piss-easy, while the boss fights are like trying to stop a speeding train with your face.

I'm at Schwann now, the first boss I've seen that uses mystic arte, and I don't have any artes that come even CLOSE to that kind of power. All I can do is wail at him, in itself not an effective tactic, since he's seldom interrupted by it, and since the game took away my damn healer, I'm even more fucked.

I'm a bit frustrated, because like I said, a challenge is one thing, but this isn't a challenge, it's beating you until you give up and reduce the difficulty to easy.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:51 pm

Abuse Overlimit and have Karol do nothing but spam Nice Aid Smash.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:57 pm

If it helps, play as Rita. She can instantly cast spells while in over limit. I personally like to spam Violent Pain, but seriously, she can just instantly cast spells in over limit. Just make sure you keep her TP up.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:09 pm

lern2play

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:09 pm

I tried playing as Rita once, although not for long. The magic-system just seemed weird, I'm used to spells being basically homing missiles in games, so when I have to select a target, cast fireball, and then the target has moved on before my fireball was cast, and subsequently missed because the target simply moved, is weird in my eyes.

I've tried a few times now on Schwann, and it seems that as long as the entire party is dogpiling him, it works. But then the party suddenly splits up, maybe he scatters them, I'm a bit busy to notice, and he picks them off one by one. I really wish the party AI had been given as much thought as the boss AI, as long as they can stay on him and shower him with attacks, he's bound to be kept busy.

And a design decision that annoys me is the inability to skip pre-boss fight cut scenes, since they are usually pretty long, and filled with exposition that is boring to hear 10 times. A feature that allows you to instantly reload the boss fight would have been nice.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:15 pm

Are you properly using combo chains instead of spamming whatever hightest TP arte on your moveset? Do you set the AI to do specific things in battle? Do you have good timing to defend and/or free run? Do you set up elemental resistence and damage before the battle?

Also you can skip texts by holding X+A.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:22 pm

I play Tales like I play any other RPG. Never run from a battle, and in the case of visible encounters in dungeons, engage every single encounter unless revisiting an area. Use any purchasable healing items during a boss battle if I have to, and if that's not enough, grind more.

I'm pretty mediocre at Tales games (I don't guard a much as I should - I'm pretty gung-ho) and this has yet to fail me.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:37 pm

Properly using combo chains? I am unsure, I feel I'm still practicing. What I'm capable of doing is 3 attacks, then an arte. Then I have to wait 2 seconds for Yuri to reset so I can start again.

Set AI to specific things? Well, both yes and no. I've done some looking at the strategy tree, but I'm uncertain about the attack patterns of the boss, sometimes he breaks up and goes for Rita, ignoring the 3 people standing around him. When he runs, he breaks the entire flow of combat, because attacks miss if they're not in his specific 2D plane. I haven't specified any one person to do a certain thing, though, other than attack the boss.

Timing? Nope, not even close. I can't follow the AI on its attacks, and I miss on blocking like an arrow shot the wrong way. I suppose this is my biggest problem, I'm useless at blocking, backstepping and all that stuff. And it seems the AI isn't very good at it either, it does exactly the same that I do, that is get stunlocked by the boss and lose 3/4 of their health. I try to use free run, but I'm not good at getting around the enemy. Often, if there's a flock of mobs, I try to run behind one of them, and end up being between all of them again once I start attacking.

Elemental resistance and damage resistance? Again, no, I'm uncertain what type of damage the boss actually does, apart from the physical. He throws some bomb shit at me that is annoying as hell, but that is usually possible to tank if I manage to use an item in time.

I know I can fast forward with X+A, I just want something to skip the whole thing right away.

I've been wondering, maybe I should go back to the beginning of the game and start over? I feel like I shouldn't have gotten this far anyway when it seems I'm just crap at the game anyway. I don't know what skills to equip, I suppose there are better gear options, the usage of artes is a bit random, I end up spamming one of my artes, even though I have 8 of them equipped. Some of them seem a bit difficult to get started as well.

Or should I just stick to trying again and again, never reducing difficulty, hoping that some day I might learn how it works? I'm not a very patient man, but I want to move forward in the game without feeling like I cheat my way forward, by reducing the difficulty.

Maybe you have some sort of extremely basic guide for combat?

Tenshigami: at some point it becomes almost impossible to use items, because he's wiped almost my entire party, and any effort to get back up again is met with an instant knock-down, since after reviving, a single attack from him is enough to kill that party member. I'm not entirely certain about the needed level, I suppose it's based on skill, but my party is lvl 41-42, and he's lvl 43. What I'm used to is that it should be enough to beat him, but I might be looking at it the wrong way. I'm maybe more reckless than gung-ho. I tend to try and brute force my way through encounters.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 2:51 pm

Regarding the start over thing, it would mainly be to experience the boss fights a little more. Like I said, they've annoyed me before, and I doubt they'll get any easier as the story progresses. And I'm wondering if I'm depriving myself of seeing the mechanics that the game designers probably put a lot of time into.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:06 pm

Twinrehz wrote:
Properly using combo chains? I am unsure, I feel I'm still practicing. What I'm capable of doing is 3 attacks, then an arte. Then I have to wait 2 seconds for Yuri to reset so I can start again.
In Vesperia you can link Normals>Base>Arcane/(>?)Altered>Burst>Mystic Arte. OVL disregard this chain system and you can chain indefinitely.

Twinrehz wrote:
Set AI to specific things? Well, both yes and no. I've done some looking at the strategy tree, but I'm uncertain about the attack patterns of the boss, sometimes he breaks up and goes for Rita, ignoring the 3 people standing around him. When he runs, he breaks the entire flow of combat, because attacks miss if they're not in his specific 2D plane. I haven't specified any one person to do a certain thing, though, other than attack the boss.
Not properly setting the AI can be a real pain in some bosses, then again Tales AIs are dumb as hell so it's not a big issue.

Twinrehz wrote:
Timing? Nope, not even close. I can't follow the AI on its attacks, and I miss on blocking like an arrow shot the wrong way. I suppose this is my biggest problem, I'm useless at blocking, backstepping and all that stuff. And it seems the AI isn't very good at it either, it does exactly the same that I do, that is get stunlocked by the boss and lose 3/4 of their health. I try to use free run, but I'm not good at getting around the enemy. Often, if there's a flock of mobs, I try to run behind one of them, and end up being between all of them again once I start attacking.
Bosses usually says something before doing something, you should pay attention to this.

Twinrehz wrote:
I've been wondering, maybe I should go back to the beginning of the game and start over? I feel like I shouldn't have gotten this far anyway when it seems I'm just crap at the game anyway. I don't know what skills to equip, I suppose there are better gear options, the usage of artes is a bit random, I end up spamming one of my artes, even though I have 8 of them equipped. Some of them seem a bit difficult to get started as well.
Not necessary, just go into random battles with Minimum Damage equipped and start learning the gameplay. It's not that hard.

Twinrehz wrote:
Maybe you have some sort of extremely basic guide for combat?
Try this.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:12 pm

I see. The different skills that says you can link base artes with altered artes, are those not really necessary then? I think I have problems linking artes, because I'm at heart very much a button masher, and button presses are basically random, seeing what sticks. It has become less random as I've progressed in the game, but I still find it difficult to hit the arte that is on Up+A. Sometimes Yuri just doesn't respond, other times he makes a jump into the air. How exactly does that work? Do I hold down A, then push Up? Or does it require timing as well, requiring you to hit the two at the same time?
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:49 pm

Oh, is the minimum damage thing useful for farming those glyphs as well? I still don't have any of them, because I don't think I have enough points in anything anywhere to get any of them. Not sure I have enough skills to put points in either.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Wed Jun 04, 2014 7:37 pm

Plus, there's an annoying mission: Hit him after he uses his Mystic Arte. Plus, I got one more for you: Hit Yeager with Rain when his blastia heart is exposed. You have no idea how hard it was for me to even try this.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:45 pm

Always set your AI strategy for bosses. When he's in Overlimit, go in defense, and you yourself should guard. Vesperia is nice in that it lets you have four strategy settings, so set one strategy for all members to go defensive and only guard, and activate that strategy when he goes on overlimit, they'll mostly guard and run away from bosses. When he leaves Overlimit, go back to your usual setting and barrage him.

Set Karol to do mainly Healing duty in this one, he's the only healer you have at this point, and don't forget, there's nothing wrong with using items, use them if you really need to!

And I suggest to practice playing the game properly. Like Sliv said, fight every encounter and manage to practice your combo skills, also practicing your defensive options will help. Setting your difficulty to Hard for normal battles will help you practice for sure. And also, get all weapons you don't have yet, and master those skills.

I've seen your topics before, and I really suggest to learn basic comboing fundamentals. Attackx3 -> Base Arte -> Arcane Arte, then quickly guard.

It really just takes practice and effective management for most Tales games.


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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:51 am

I have a lot of skills, I figured quite early that they're probably important. What I can't seem to get my head around, is how to define a character's role using them. Karol is probably a bunch of skills short, I basically stopped using him after the ghost ship, where I discovered that other party members are more useful than he is.

I'm not sure how many skills I got compared to the number of skills I could have had at this point in the game, I have some weapons in the inventory that's waiting to get used, I have several synthesis options that I haven't gotten to yet, because the weapons they're tied to haven't been used yet.

And I need to start remembering where I put the different artes. Is it just me, or does using the right analog for artes take longer time to trigger than the ones you activate with X?
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:18 pm

DylDawg wrote:
Like Sliv said, fight every encounter and manage to practice your combo skills, also practicing your defensive options will help. Setting your difficulty to Hard for normal battles will help you practice for sure. And also, get all weapons you don't have yet, and master those skills.
I feel honored that you're referencing me, and that is indeed how I played through Vesperia at the time (and any Tales Game or RPG really), but this is my first post in this thread, so I'm not entirely sure how you've managed to paraphrase me... Wink

Tenshi's post and the general message in this thread got me thinking though, and this train of thought is more of a tangent topic so bear with me please.

I've been playing through every Tales Game (and currently Xillia) with the idea in mind that I am going to do a second playthrough at some point, and that this playthrough is merely a stepping stone to make the next one easier. I am literally scrutinizing through each game, searching every nook and cranny for hidden treasures or lore. I try to play most of the game without a guide and still get 100% on my first playthrough by spending hours upon hours exploring these digital worlds, whilst gathering a respectable amount of grade so I can carry over costumes or attachments and an experience modifier at least, so that next time I play through the game, whether I'll do so with friends or not, it will be more enjoyable and the progress will be that much quicker.

I am now starting to reconsider this way of playing through Tales Games (and RPG's in general). Rather than having genuine fun, I am giving myself a major challenge with the way I'm playing these games, racking up the difficulty on my first playthrough, grinding like crazy to keep up with the steep difficulty curve, all with the idea in mind that I don't want to miss any event (they might be worth grade, or maybe they are very interesting) and the self-made promise that any hypothetical future playthrough will be more fun than this one.

The reality being, sadly, that I probably never will play through the game again because I won't have time for it and most of my friends are not that interested. What did I even gather all that Grade in Xillia for?

So no, Twinrehz, I do not recommend adjusting yourself to the game, grinding like crazy and learning all the skills you can.

I would like to recommend to you to adjust the game to you. Look up which skills you'll think are fun to use, and which ones are not worth the effort. Play around with the characters and try to figure out which ones suit your style the best, and which ones you enjoy controlling the most. (Don't count out Karol just yet, Mighty Charge with the Quick Charge skill is a force to behold. Without it though, he can be pretty lame).

If necessary, tone down that difficulty. A challenge is fun and all, but not when it gets in the way of enjoying the game.

edit: Learning how to guard and dodge is a definite plus though. Makes the game much more enjoyable.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:44 pm

Woops, it was Tenshi...

Your sets are quite similar in color, and somehow, I managed to confuse you two. Guess I got used to Lina Inverse as Tenshi's avatar. haha sorry bout that.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:21 am

Slivendiferious wrote:
*snip*
You make a very good point, and cause for consideration. To me, there's 2 sides to playing this game:

1) I do like how the combat system plays in Vesperia, it has a complexity that I don't fully grasp, yet I have a desire to do so. It seems though, I lack the patience to actually stick with the game enough to be able to mount the difficulty curve, because:

2) I have A LOT of games that I want to play through. Not just games that I would like to go through, but games that I already have, sitting and waiting for me to start playing them. Several of them are huge RPG titles, promising several hundred hours per game to complete. I'm also terrible at managing my spare time, and my metaphorical wayside is littered with games, books and movies that I want to experience. That said, I find it difficult to start analyzing any of this stuff, as I'm probably supposed to, like what does character X's death mean in this context to the other characters, and the plot in whole. In my head, it basically means nothing, the story goes on regardless. I'm sort of a "blank mind" kind of guy, it seems I spend time with this to distract me from reality the only way I know; occupy my actions with something else, and turn off the rest of my brain. It's got me through most of my life (there's stuff I don't want to talk about), but now, I want to change that. I want to get on top of things again, feel the gratification of mastering something, feeling like I'm actually enjoying something.

Whew, this got awfully contemplative this early in the morning, before I even had breakfast. I hope I didn't bore you with my rant, I tend to get carried away by my thoughts. (And it doesn't really have anything to do with Tales-games).

EDIT: I also subscribe to the idea that I'll be wanting to play through the game again, "some day", and I'll do it properly and with difficulty set to max and all that. I have yet to play any long game twice, though. (I don't know how many times I've collected stars in Super Mario 64, I sometimes play it during D&D sessions, because it's so easy and I've played it so many times, it doesn't distract me from the other game I'm playing. We play D&D online, because we live on opposite sides of the country).
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:42 am

DylDawg wrote:
Woops, it was Tenshi...

Your sets are quite similar in color, and somehow, I managed to confuse you two.
Just goes to show how awesome both are imo.

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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:13 pm

DylDawg wrote:
Guess I got used to Lina Inverse as Tenshi's avatar. haha sorry bout that.
Well I did have that set for quite some time, and both me and Sliv are now sporting Uninhabited Planet Survive sets, so I can understand the confusion.

Suikiwiden wrote:
Just goes to show how awesome both are imo.
W-well I-I er u-um...


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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:27 pm

Suikiwiden wrote:
DylDawg wrote:
Woops, it was Tenshi...

Your sets are quite similar in color, and somehow, I managed to confuse you two.
Just goes to show how awesome both are imo.
Aww man...

D=

Just when I changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Impossible to beat bosses in tales of vesperia   Fri Jun 06, 2014 1:44 pm

Slivendiferious wrote:
Suikiwiden wrote:
DylDawg wrote:
Woops, it was Tenshi...

Your sets are quite similar in color, and somehow, I managed to confuse you two.
Just goes to show how awesome both are imo.
Aww man...

D=

Just when I changed.
I dunno, Sliv... That new set you've got goin' is pretty darn hilarious!

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