| Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process | |
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+3Meowzy SuzutheNinja BlazingFiddlesticks 7 posters |
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BlazingFiddlesticks
Posts : 337 Join date : 2014-02-04 Age : 33
| Subject: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:19 am | |
| I'll mark to be extra careful. - Spoiler:
So I was playing Symphonia again and hit the point where Collete's lifeless state is diagnosed, which sent my mind to a different place. Just how much do the people of the two worlds know about the actual details of the process- and more importantly, how widespread is it and what do they do with it? It's a two-fold question; that Tethe'allan Academia knows how Cruxis Crystals work on a biological level is a step removed from the conclusion that all Cruxis really is in the first place is a gaggle of Crystal hosts, which we know to be true. It would fit with Tethe'alla's being the cynical half of civilization while Slyvarant is the humble(r) and devout. Likewise, Frank and Phiedra; they know Collete's not coming back home, maybe not for what reason, but it strikes as another gap in the facade that is only maintained for the stability of not up-ending a widely held doctrine. Which in turn begs the whole question of the phases of the Church's operation over the centuries and goes down a wonderful speculatory rabbit hole that I'm not pursuing because I'm not about to outline 4000 years of a fictional universe when I'm sure to the moon Namco certainly didn't!
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SuzutheNinja
Posts : 16 Join date : 2015-06-08 Location : Ninja Village
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Tue Jun 09, 2015 6:52 pm | |
| - ?:
I've actually never thought of this! I'm looking forward to hearing other people's opinions on it. Maybe for Sylverant, only the chosen's close family know, and for Tethe'alla same thing, only since they have experiments on it there, so the scientists know as well...I'm guessing they just think nothing of it since they know they need it to keep their land prospering? :X
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Meowzy
Posts : 160 Join date : 2014-02-02
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:13 pm | |
| - Spoiler:
For Sylvarant, I think it's really very simple. The belief, if I remember correctly, is that once Colette has completed her 'angel transformation' and successfully awakened the Goddess Martel, she will 'ascend to heaven (perhaps known as Derris Kharlan to some?) to be with her family'. That's the reason why the Chosen Ones never return after the regeneration is complete- they're supposed to be descended from angels, even if they were born from humans. The belief that Martel will seal away the Desians and return mana to the world is genuine, I think.
For Tethe'alla, it does indeed get more complicated. The Renegades informed them about the existence of Sylvarant and the hourglass system, that much is fact. They also started handing out Exspheres over there. I can't remember the exact dialogue in that happens when they examine Colette's soulless state, but I'm fairly sure they've already made the connection that Cruxis Crystals and Exspheres are closely tied together. People like Vharley (with the help of Rodyle) are doing research similar to the Angelus Project, after all.
Which does indeed beg the question: How much do the Tethe'allans still believe in the Church of Martel? I think that what happens is that the Tethe'allans follow the Church out of fear. We all know the Pope wields incredible power and is kind of a corrupt asshole. ...Same for the Chosen One. Then there's people like Rodyle running around, doing horrible things in the name of Cruxis (he's a Grand Cardinal, after all). Tethe'allans seem to know that while there's something a little 'off' about the regeneration legend and the Cruxis Crystal, they know better than to question it too hard because the Church of Martel is pulling pretty much all the strings in that world.
Just a theory, of course!
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Yumi-Yumi
Posts : 164 Join date : 2015-06-05 Age : 31
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:20 pm | |
| - Spoiler:
I agree with Meowzy for the most part, although I would question how many people in Tethe'alla actually know about all these things. I don't think the Renegades would go around telling the whole population about such delicate things and even if they did, how many would believe them? It's been a while since I played Symphonia, but I'd guess the only people who know about the two-world-system are the King, his family, his closest servants, high church personnel like the Pope and the Chosen One, and the royal academy researchers.
Last edited by Slivendiferious on Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:48 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : fixed the spoiler for you) | |
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Meowzy
Posts : 160 Join date : 2014-02-02
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:35 pm | |
| - Spoiler:
There's also Mizuho, though! Who are working closely with the royal family and the church, apparently. So really, there's a whole intricate web, there. Skeeves like Vharley might know too, because he was closely in league with Rodyle. So even if the Renegades didn't spill the beans too openly, people like Rodyle might've.
I forget if any NPCs mention Sylvarant...
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Bo Staff Katana Fatal Old Man
Posts : 345 Join date : 2014-02-02 Age : 37 Location : Katy, TX
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:39 pm | |
| To further add to what Meowzy (originally) said, - Spoiler:
The villagers in Iselia had no clue what was going to happen to Colette if the World Regeneration was successful. Frank (maybe it was Phaidra) mentions this to Lloyd and Genis right before the desians attack Iselia. However, I feel that perhaps the general populace knew that Colette would die either way. As far as what was going on in Tethe'alla, I feel like the Renegades were behind all of the knowledge that the people knew. The interaction that the party had with Tethe'allans was usually a group of high importance (the King, the Pope, the researchers), but I feel like we never really got to know regular Joe Tethe'allan. Again, I just wanted to add a little bit to what Meowzy said. She said it better than I could.
Edit: Meowzy wrote: - Spoiler:
I forget if any NPCs mention Sylvarant...
- Spoiler:
I believe a few people in Altimira mention Sylvarant before the party goes through the Otherworldly Gate. They may not mention it by name. Also, remember how Raine and Genis got to Sylvarant when they were little. I don't know how many people know about the land of Sylvarant in Tethe'alla, but the ratio is much higher than the other way around.
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Zwei.0
Posts : 204 Join date : 2014-02-02 Age : 123 Location : Mars. Fear me, humans!
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:13 am | |
| - Bo Staff Katana wrote:
- Spoiler:
I believe a few people in Altimira mention Sylvarant before the party goes through the Otherworldly Gate. They may not mention it by name. Also, remember how Raine and Genis got to Sylvarant when they were little. I don't know how many people know about the land of Sylvarant in Tethe'alla, but the ratio is much higher than the other way around.
- Spoiler:
Genis' and Raine's mother is an elf, so I bet, she would know about that. And Altamira is close enough to it to know about the rumors, I guess.
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BlazingFiddlesticks
Posts : 337 Join date : 2014-02-04 Age : 33
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:42 pm | |
| I had completely forgotten I made this topic, thanks everyone! - Spoiler:
The thing that really got me thinking was the one scene in which the Sybak biologist explains to the group why Collete's Crystal was acting up. Although they received clearance from the Meltokio research team, this still means that you have academics in multiple institutions (seemingly) open to the public dissecting the heavenly host's precious gems, independently, it looks to me, of Yuan's telling only the people who absolutely needed to know about Slyvarant and the mana exchange. The question is how much of that knowledge made its way into the broader population. Dawn makes Sybak's confidentiality even more dubious with Ricther acquiring the friggin' Sacred Stone out of Heimdall through a contact, though knowing him I suspect there was coercion involved.
The slyvarant side is easier, as I can imagine no one telling Lloyd or Genis what "Become an angel" actually details.
Last edited by BlazingFiddlesticks on Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
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Meowzy
Posts : 160 Join date : 2014-02-02
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:25 pm | |
| I think not even Frank and Phaidra knew what 'becoming an angel' actually entails. They just knew Colette wouldn't return. They probably assumed that she'd either die or go up to heaven/Derris-Kharlan to be with her ~real father~. | |
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BlazingFiddlesticks
Posts : 337 Join date : 2014-02-04 Age : 33
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Thu Jun 11, 2015 7:54 pm | |
| - Meowzy wrote:
- I think not even Frank and Phaidra knew what 'becoming an angel' actually entails. They just knew Colette wouldn't return. They probably assumed that she'd either die or go up to heaven/Derris-Kharlan to be with her ~real father~.
Where would Raine have gotten the information about Colette's "losing herself", then? The way she phrased her apology made it sound like she was withholding existing information. EDIT: I realized that I basically repeated the OP in my second post. I really should have reread myself! | |
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Meowzy
Posts : 160 Join date : 2014-02-02
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:21 am | |
| OH, Raine says that? She might be referring to the angel transformation in general though. Like, it might be knowledge within the church that as a Chosen transforms into an angel, she begins to lose her senses and eventually her heart and memories. I imagine this might've been documented every time a previous Chosen went on her journey. Which still doesn't equate to 'becoming a vessel'; it just implies that because angels are 'superior' to humans, a Chosen needs to lose her humanity in order to fulfill her destiny and join her 'family'.
...Possibly. | |
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Zwei.0
Posts : 204 Join date : 2014-02-02 Age : 123 Location : Mars. Fear me, humans!
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:55 am | |
| About that: Does every group die - get killed - when the reach the Tower? IIRC, the group of the Phaidra's older(?) sister did die despite reaching it but the chosen herself failed. | |
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Bo Staff Katana Fatal Old Man
Posts : 345 Join date : 2014-02-02 Age : 37 Location : Katy, TX
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:22 am | |
| Do we know what happened to the previous chosen other than she was killed during the journey? Marble told Lloyd and Genis that the previous chosen was killed by desians, but we know that's not likely true. | |
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BlazingFiddlesticks
Posts : 337 Join date : 2014-02-04 Age : 33
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:49 pm | |
| - Spoiler:
Oh, I'm not suggesting anyone knew about the details, just that Chosens do not come out of the process unscathed. Phaidra does mention the previous Chosen being killed, yes.
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Saeko
Posts : 56 Join date : 2014-02-04
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:47 pm | |
| - Zwei.0 wrote:
- About that: Does every group die - get killed - when the reach the Tower? IIRC, the group of the Phaidra's older(?) sister did die despite reaching it but the chosen herself failed.
- Bo Staff Katana wrote:
- Do we know what happened to the previous chosen other than she was killed during the journey? Marble told Lloyd and Genis that the previous chosen was killed by desians, but we know that's not likely true.
- Spoiler:
Every Sylvaranti Chosens since the last successful Tethe'allan World Regeneration (about 800 years before Colette) were killed by the Renegades. Their party were most likely killed, too, if we assume that Vidarr and/or Botta were always among the assassination squad since it took the assistance of a Seraph of Cruxis to defeat Vidarr and a lot more to defeat Botta.
The Chosen's escort is supposed to be priests from the Church of Martel who are cool with sacrificing a 16 years old girl because Cruxis said so. They are more or less aware of what happens during the journey but there's at least one documented evidence of a priest "becoming violent" at Efreet's seal during Nora's journey and being punished by Cruxis, which is hinted to have caused Old Triet's destruction.
I'd say that the people escorting the Chosen are only killed during the journey if they interfere, ask too many questions or threaten to expose Cruxis' dirty secrets. There's apparently also one instance of the group having to tie up an uncooperative Chosen and literally drag her through the seals.
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Meowzy
Posts : 160 Join date : 2014-02-02
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:02 am | |
| .............what. That last bit was seriously a thing? Where was this mentioned? Oh my god that's awful. | |
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Saeko
Posts : 56 Join date : 2014-02-04
| Subject: Re: Outside knowledge of the World Regeneration Process Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:28 pm | |
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