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 Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)

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zionhyome



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PostSubject: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:28 pm

I haven't seen this on this site. I did a search and nothing came up, so if I missed it, I apologize. It has to do with Raine and Genis never questioning why Kratos and Zelos can use magic. I know how they are able to (Aionis Stone), but I don't understand why, at least, Raine, never questioned how a human was able to use magic. Now, I did see a topic about this on another site, but everyone who replied seemed to just explain how they were able to use magic, and not why the Half Elves never inquired about their ability. When Zelos does reveal the reason he is able to use magic, it's in the context of everyone saying that only those with elven blood can wield the Eternal Sword. He then goes on to explain that, because of the stone, he is basically a human with elven blood inside of him, and that's why he can use elven magic. This would seem to imply that the restrictions, in Phantasia, that mean only those with elven blood can use magic is already in place during the time of Symphonia's events. I only say that, because someone, on that site said that "lots of things can change within one thousand years, so that restriction may not have applied in Symphonia". So, why then, didn't Raine, or anyone else ask? With Kratos, it could be that, the humans, at least, thought he may have been a half elf, but that doesn't work for Raine and Genis, because they would be able to sense it. With Zelos, however, this doesn't even work with the human characters, because of the strict caste system in Tethe'alla, and the fact that the Chosen lineage is very carefully selected. A half elf would never be allowed in the Chosen lineage. While it is explained how Zelos can use magic, and Kratos is probably able to use it for the same reason, nobody in-game knows it until close to the end. Now, I think Sheena does say that she wondered how he was able to use magic, she never asked, and neither did Raine or Genis. With Raine, it is particularly out of character, because she is naturally curious of everything.
Now, I only ask because I think there may be something I missed that someone else caught. I'm not trying to point out inconsistencies or plot holes. I'm simply asking for clarification from someone who may have paid more attention than myself.
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Bo Staff Katana
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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:22 pm

I can't offer any definitive answers, only speculation. You do bring up an interesting point. One possible explanation for this is the exsphere that Kratos uses. Although Lloyd can't use any magic spells, he does develop some ranged attacks due to his exsphere. Perhaps the party thought that was a side effect of his exsphere.

Another explanation comes from Sheena. There is a dialogue between Sheena and Lloyd where Sheena speculates on her ability to summon. She mentions that only those with elven blood have the ability to summon, so it is likely that she has some elven ancestors, though she is still human. Perhaps if a half-elf and a human have a baby, that baby would be more human than elf, so the lifespan would be closer to that of a human, but still have the magic ability of elves? I don't know how common that would be in their world though.

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zionhyome



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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:37 pm

Wow. That's actually a valid reason. I think I remember thinking about that years ago, but over time, I forgot about it, because it does sound familiar. And, please don't take that the wrong way. I'm not surprised that you, specifically, gave a valid answer. On the other site I saw this question on, people were just giving the reasons they could use magic, and not why they were never asked about it. I guess this site just has smarter people.
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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:22 am

If you take Kratos with you at Forcystus' Farm, he will ask Kratos why he can use magic and wonders if he's an half-elf, iirc. But that was it.
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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:50 am

I take no offense. Symphonia is my favorite game so I think about it a lot and have played through it several times. I just love talking about it, though there are people here more knowledgeable about the game than me.

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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:19 pm

Late reply, but Zelos might have been given bad information.

Spoiler:
 

This solution does not explain Kratos. But then do we really need to explain Kratos? He's seen enough already, let him be.

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PostSubject: Re: Kratos and Zelos Magic (Spoilers? I think)   Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:43 am

I've actually been wondering this too, and the reason why no one asked is what I assume to be just a plot hole. Very likely, having the characters ask this got overlooked in the midst of all the changes they had to do to in getting the final product. A possibility is that they hadn't planned on having elves be the only ones capable of magic (slight evidence shown in that in order to get Raine to learn Resurrection, you have to read a book written by an assumed human, Boltzmann) but someone probably reminded them part way that in Tales of Phantasia, humans couldn't use magic so suddenly, they had to change things to fit that.

But if you want to get an explanation in game... well, do we know for sure that the other characters knew that Kratos and Zelos could use magic at the beginning of their travels? While yes, you can make them use magic in battle, but that's only if a player is making them do it. If left to the AI, they will not use any spell except for healing artes, which seem to be treated differently from offensive magic as humans are capable of knowing healing artes. Furthermore, they will never use spells in cut-scenes. From this, you can choose to take it that they're not using magic much in front of the other characters, so the others didn't know until later.

To be specific, in Kratos' case, you can take it that the story intends for him to not use offensive magic in front of anyone until
Spoiler:
 
so it's until then that they learn Kratos does have magic. And by then, not only is it too late to ask him why he knows magic, but they can just assume that he knows it because
Spoiler:
 

In Zelos' case, he's not really using magic in front of anyone but he's not trying to hide it either. It probably comes up a lot later on, and by then, the party knows a fair bit on the fate of the Chosens, the process in becoming an angel, and Cruxis' plan. They may have assumed that just by the fact he has a Cruxis Crystal, the process of becoming an angel would begin regardless of whether he was doing the Journey of Regeneration or not. And just how Colette learns angel artes, which function a lot like spells and may be seen as spells to everyone else, they figured Zelos got his magic via that way.
Spoiler:
 
And then, by the time anyone could question why exactly Zelos knows magic despite
Spoiler:
 
he then gives an explanation on his own accord. At that point, there's no need to ask anything.

Anyway, that's just how I choose to logic it out.
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