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 I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings

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Tenshigami
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:09 pm


(Velvet's exact response to someone making assumptions about her based on her gender. GIF courtesy of yours truly.)

Can we just drop it? Please?

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Samaël
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:35 pm

Assuming women can't do things that men can, assuming women can't play sports, assuming women can't fight is exactly what makes you those things.

You are a misogynist even if you try to deny it.

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Samaël
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:07 pm

You know the reason you don't see that stuff? It's because of men, not because women not wanting to do it. Men get so angry when women beat them at sports that they ban them from playing against men.

You are a misogynist for thinking that a women's role is for them to stay home to cook and clean. You say everyone is equal and yet you think women can't play against men.

This is also rather transphobic.

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Taiyz
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:27 pm

Yeah, there's a reason why in many sports women don't compete against men directly...The same reason that different weight classes in physical sports exist (or because of what Samael said, that's pretty awesome actually.) This problem doesn't exist in a fucking fantasy world, especially when characters have drastically different physical abilities (whether the character designer bases this on their gender or not) that could allow a faster fighter with a fucking demon arm to totally topple big man mcbeefcake.

The issue is that you are reinforcing bigoted perspectives of gender roles. You can say that you prefer watching mens' sports for totally valid reasons, I'm sure there are major differences in certain sports, but your original comment effectively stated that Velvet shouldn't be fighting period, that she should be cooking and cleaning. This is LITERALLY THE SAME as saying womens' sports shouldn't exist because you think men are better athletes so they should be housewives instead.


Moreover, why is this a problem now? Female fighters have existed in Tales games for decades, and IT'S THE GODDAMN TALES SERIES, IF YOU DON'T LIKE VELVET YOU CAN FUCKING PLAY AS ROKURO OR ANYONE ELSE. If anything the bigger issue is that Armitization limited your options of character choices in Zestiria compared to normal Tales games, if you wanted to play as a female character you would be stuck with Lailah and Edna having to play musical chairs whenever you needed to select a different element until Rose joins.


And I am going to count this as a second strike now, this is a discussion that didn't need continuing. I'm not going to lock this one, because I think your request to defend yourself is a fair one, but I think you're just digging yourself a deeper hole.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:36 pm

Yeah ban this idiot. Please. I don't even care if I get in trouble for calling them that, it's a risk I'm willing to take.
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:11 pm

We're not ganging up on you because you say men and women are different. Yes men and women are different, and if you actually knew anything you'd know there's more than just "men" and "women". You're saying sexist bullshit about women and trying to brush is off as a tasteless joke.

I am deeply offended at everything you are saying.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:07 am

We don't really have a need for a formal ruleset. This is 2016, netiquette is a generally understood concept. Common sense and human decency is all we really expect. Apart from this situation, the only other problem I recall having on the current iteration of this forum is that one asshole that continuously made irrelevant posts to complain about random voice actors for no reason, and that was literally all they posted, using several alts to do so.

We're pretty easygoing for the most part, and we've got a "forum games" sub-forum for random bullshit so that the other boards maintain an actual sense of discussion, but if someone goes out of their way to make a hate thread with no constructive criticism, you're gonna get a warning.

And again, this is 2016. That whole "oops everybody's mad at what I said, better pass it off as a joke" mindset doesn't work anymore. If you had made this thread as a simple apology instead of trying to defend yourself against TOTALLY valid criticism, then maybe we wouldn't be so hard on you, but even as a joke the ol' "make me a sandwich" routine is completely tasteless.

Also another piece of advice, when trying to back up an argument, don't bring religious or political views into it. This is the internet, we don't care what you believe on the inside, and don't assume that we're part of your country or political spectrum, all we care about is what your outward speech and actions say about you as a human being. You are sounding like the worst kind of politician right now, throwing around terms like "liberal delusions" while also throwing around your god's name and saying that you accept everybody.

You can say you believe in equality all you want, but your arguments lead us to believe that you don't understand what that really means.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:08 am

Gender roles are a social construct. Men are raised to be men, and women are raised to be women. This is sad because it can be very limiting to people. Many men for example are scared to express emotion and compassion, because they will be looked down upon, since it's not "manly". And don't even get me started on women. Also being forced to do something just because you're good at it, is pretty tragic as well.

But yes, we should drop this. Like Taiyz said, it's 2016, almost 2017. Acting respectful and civilized (even online) should be common sense. Good thing you apologized, though.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:59 pm

I do agree with everyone's comments, and I'd like to believe you honestly didn't get the situation. I want to clarify so you understand that people do not hate you per se, what you say was just deeply hurtful. Misogynist isn't generally used as "woman hater" as much anymore, more so the prejudice against women (means based on the fact that they are women) aspect. Which saying things like women cannot do X because they are women...is very much exactly that.

I think you honestly want to get along and that's great! I am sure you are polite and friendly, everyone wants to get along too, they just see you saying some things and they know better/differently because of their experiences and knowledge of the world, so they cannot see where you are coming from.

For your latest point though, Sex is biological, gender is psychological. Gender roles are absolutely a human thing, but that doesn't mean there are only two genders or only the one you are deemed at birth. Imposing the roles of the gender they are not on a person has devastating consequences. It is a sensitive topic and it should be treated with dignity, a lot of lives have been lost because of gender and sex, so I do agree that things like the sandwich jokes are out of line coming from that context.

It is also true that we impose extra gender roles, on top of the comfortable one, those are the ones that vary by society, and they can be extremely harmful, women are gravely restricted almost universally and men are encouraged to form or exaggerate unhealthy behaviours. In example, cisgendered males are more likely to be physically aggressive, very much so, that does not make it right. That is because dangerous behaviours can be moderated in a healthy way, but western culture does the opposite and can encourage it as something "stereotypically manly" you must be this way if you are a man. And this is just not fact. There are natural differences, and that's probably how division got set up, but we are not restricted to that, nor should it be continued when we know for a fact it is unhealthy, unneeded, and unproductive.

Race may be a construct (I would argue that it is not exactly, but one day may be), but it is used to hurt people, and as long as that happens we cannot all happily be one race. If people are discriminated against based on it, it is useful to identify it and realize that it is happening that these people are oppressed based on a distinguishing trait(s). Its a lovely sentiment and I totally agree with you on that, I am just offering a point as to why some may have a problem with the view, because it does not serve its purpose.

I also found what you said hurtful, it hits me on a deep level, but I think you did not intend that. I do hope we can (continue) to be friends.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:29 pm

Of course, I apologize for the lengthy message! I saw you may have been ignorant of some things so I wanted to provide you with some information you could look back on when in doubt if you get less favourable reactions anytime else.

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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:48 pm

Not wanting to get tooo into this argument, but... Velvet was absolutely the strongest playable character in Berseria. I mean that both story-wise and gameplay-wise. Whatever you think of the tendencies in strength of women, they totally do not apply to Velvet. She wasn't a human, she was effectively a monster with powers far beyond most people in that entire video game. So to me it seems more like you want to personally identify with the protagonist of your video games and the most core aspect of that is having the protagonist be a male. As a female, I gotta say, you guys gotta get used to identifying with female characters because women have been identifying with male characters for ages without any problems whatsoever.

Personally, I was glad that Velvet happened. Milla was handled pretty shoddily as a female protagonist (even if she did share the role with Jude, she always seemed secondary to him, and actually had eye-rolling damsel in distress moments for more parts of the game than I'd care to admit, unlike Velvet).
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PostSubject: Re: I want to clarify a few things and misunderstandings   Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:31 am

Street Fighter III: You're Banned.

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