Pokémon - HOENN EDITION

Guys, did you hear? Smogon is doing another suspect test. This time about banning Mega Gengar FROM THE FUCKING UBER TIER!

WHAT THE FLYING f***, SMOGON!  

Txn wrote:

Guys, did you hear? Smogon is doing another suspect test. This time about banning Mega Gengar FROM THE FUCKING UBER TIER!

WHAT THE FLYING f***, SMOGON!  

I'm so gonna sigquote this.

Getting real tired of your avant-garde cyberbullying schtick Smogon.

Getting real mad.

Wyh?

Whhyyyyyyyy?

But Aegislash and Mega Gengar (even with the protect sub perish destiny bond set) are pretty easy to take care of. Why do some 13 year olds who lack the creativity to come up with fun ways to counter them (I don't want to run encore/ worry seed/ shadow tag to name a few) feel the need to ban something from the banlist?! Perish teams fall apart without the bird or the ghost.
Aegislash is the most tactical pokemon yet. In a sense it is the best thing to happen to the competitive scene in years.

And they want to ban it.

I have no words smogon. No words.

Banning an uber Pokemon from ubers.

Considering banning a Pokemon I like? Clearly all of Smogon is nothing but a bag of idiots, even if nothing is set in stone yet. Nor will I take the time to look into it myself so as to better educate myself on their stance.

Clearly, Smogon sucks and I should not go and form my own opinions.

Problem is Smogon makes a lot of inane calls from what I've seen. :/

Might as well ban Magikarp too because f*** logic.

I mean, banning Mega Gengar to ubers is one thing, but banning Mega Gengar FROM GODDAMN UBERS, ubers, being the tier where ANYTHING goes, from Dark Void Darkrai, to Minimize Double Team shenanigans, or SD Espeed Arceus or Geomancy Xerneas roam, and they to friggin ban Mega Gengar, from bloody ubers.

CAN'T.TELL.IF.SERIOUS.

Suikiwiden wrote:

Problem is Smogon makes a lot of inane calls from what I've seen. :/

Might as well ban Magikarp too because f*** logic.

Then here's an idea. Contribute to their tiers discussion so that way there's a chance of the Mons you think shouldn't be banned aren't, you know, banned

Falcom wrote:

CAN'T.TELL.IF.SERIOUS.

More than likely not. Not to mention, again, nothing is set in stone as of yet, it's still all just discussion.

Although honestly I wouldn't see it as any different from banning the Moody ability. But eh, whatever.

DreamSword wrote:

Suikiwiden wrote:

Problem is Smogon makes a lot of inane calls from what I've seen. :/

Might as well ban Magikarp too because f*** logic.

Then here's an idea. Contribute to their tiers discussion so that way there's a chance of the Mons you think shouldn't be banned aren't, you know, banned

Well I prolly would if I was serious enough of a battler. xD

Yeah man she is the Luvdisc queen.
#casualswag

I still don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over Smogon.

King Cat the Sixth wrote:

I still don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over Smogon.

Because they hate that their broken Mons get thrown into Uber tier, even though it shouldn't impact them in any way if they don't like the way Smogon does things.

I haven't really followed news on this game, but my friend told me it'l be available on DS too; is it true?

King Cat the Sixth and perhaps DreamSword wrote:

I still don't understand why people get their panties in a bunch over Smogon.

I will admit that I might have overreacted a bit at the news yesterday, but here's the thing. Any other pokemon being "banned" wouldn't really have made me irritated about this. However, banning a pokemon from the freaking banlist, that's something I find disturbing.

Pokemon Showdown is a great tool for testing out new teams. Of course, I could just stick to XY Singles and XY Doubles to test them, but only around 6 people use those at a time, usually for a couple of hours. You're bound to keep running into the same people with the same teams and get the same ragequits each and every time.
It would be nice to test it against other teams, to test it against variety. And that's where you are forced to use the Tiered System Smogon made up.

I can understand the need for a tiered system. A bug pokemon wil never be in the same tier as a freaking legendary, but that is kind of a tier the pokemon game itself almost enforces. How smogon decides which pokemon go in which tier is still somewhat of a mystery to me, as I don't follow their rules most of the time. To me, it seems a lot of pokes in lower tiers can defeat pokes in higher tiers with the right strategies, which blurs the lines between some tiers and some pokemon at least a little.

Aside from some infuriating clauses they made up (no two pokemon statused/asleep? no evasion, no moody, etc) I guess I could use the tiered system to test my teams, even if they keep banning pokemon. I'd just have to move up through the tiers to use all the pokes I want and get relevant testing results, except that they're not 100% relevant because of the clauses, but it's as close as you can get.

What I have a problem with, is that they now want to ban a pokemon from the ubers tier. This is not about Mega Gengar, this is about banning a pokemon from the freaking banlist itself. No matter what pokemon it is, I won't be able to test against it anymore, or use it myself, while I will run into it in pokemon X and Y themselves. As soon as they realize it is okay for them to ban a pokemon from ubers, any pokemon at all, more are sure to follow.

Aside from that, as I have mentioned before, if you do want to make it about Mega Gengar, what I've seen of it, it isn't even that much of a threat. And the same goes for Aegislash.

If anything, Aegislash, in my humble opinion, is one of the best things to happen to competitive play in the past few years. It is such a versatile and tactical pokemon and now they want to bump it up to Ubers exactly because of that reason. They want to ban the epitome of the pokemon vs pokemon scene for being the epitome of the pokemon vs pokemon scene. I just can't wrap my head around that.

Honestly. I understand that Aegislash has good stats in one direction according to it's stance and that it can change those stats seemingly at will, and that it forces people into a mindgame of sorts, the dreaded 50/50 situation. It forces people in the same mindgame as Spiky/ Thorny Shield, Quick Guard, Crafty Shield and even Protect.
It is a tactical pokemon, a truly tactical pokemon, not a one trick pony (Scarf Garchomp comes to mind) which seems to have been accepted in the metagame as awesome and the standard way the game should be played.

You either stall, or you're hyper offensive; you can't be versatile. Because you suck when you think outside of the box. Your strategy is gay and cheap (for sweeping all of their pokemon), your pokemon are in the wrong tier, "your" a noob, "your" no fun when you play like this, wyh, #rekt, hax, etc.

Insulting the other player and their dog is apparently fine, but somehow most of the smogon community finds forcing 50/50s (using aegislash) "uncompetitive play": behavior unbecoming of a practitioner of the most honorable and noble art that is the sportsmanship of pokemon dueling.

Which is exactly why I don't understand why people want to ban Aegislash.

And that is why my panties are in a bunch.

Luckily there are at least some people on PS who can appreciate tactics or a strategy for what it is, instead of making a comment about what they did with your mother.

But yeah I'll shut up about it now.

DreamSword wrote:

Then here's an idea. Contribute to their tiers discussion so that way there's a chance of the Mons you think shouldn't be banned aren't, you know, banned

Yeah that would work if there simply weren't so many people with that trademark Smogon mentality.

Falcom wrote:

Yeah man she is the Luvdisc queen.
#casualswag

Txn is the future Sunkern Lord if Smogon keeps this up.

Where can I apply for the position of Volbeat King or Delibird Prince?

Yume Hanabi wrote:

I haven't really followed news on this game, but my friend told me it'l be available on DS too; is it true?

I have heard nothing about it being false nor true.

Personally, I just think that being bothered by Smogon is indeed overreacting because you can just go 'f*** Smogon' and play however you like with your own game. But I can see why people is salty when talking about Showdown, which is pretty much "Smogon's official simulator". I remember back in Shoddy Battle days where there are a lot of other alternative servers so people can go batshit crazy with Double Teams and whatnot.

Regardless, I still think that Smogon's tiering and clause system actually is quite a fair solution. Sleep Clause for example (I don't think that other status has their clause), definitely makes for a better battling environment, otherwise you can just induce sleeping for all 6 Pokemon, boost up speed and attack to the max and plow through stuff without cares and worries. With Sleep Clause, the opponent actually have a fighting chance by switching out. Of course, it can be countered by having Insomniac (or Early Bird) Pokemon, but that means you absolutely must make a room for one Pokemon with that ability which subsequently invalidate your entire playstyle.

Evasion clause has the same problem, worst actually because everyon (iirc) can learn Double Team. With +6 evasion on both party, it just became a game of praying to the random number god for his grace. And again, you can opt for Aerial Ace or Shockwave, but again that means you absolutely must have a Pokemon with that move in your team at all times; ergo, invalidating playstyle.

Tiering system also attempts to fix this. When a Pokemon is deemed to be powerful and requiring specific counter at best, check at worst, you absolutely have to have that Pokemon (counters and checks) in your team to actually stand a chance, and once again invalidating your playstyle. This seems to be the case for Aegislash from the discussion in Smogon.

It's not about banning a Pokemon because it's too powerful and we hate you for using it, but it's about letting other Pokemon have a chance at shining and not having the same generic counters and checks for team because everyone wants to win. Like you just said, some lower tier Pokemon are very viable with the right strategy, hence why they're opening up their chance by banning certain Pokemon.

Also, I'd like to say that tier other than uber is based on the usage statistics, so blame everyone and their dogs for using the exact same Pokemon.

In Mega Gengar case, it's because it can pretty much screw your entire team by taking down your vital Pokemon (usually walls) with Taunt Destiny Bond, rendering you open for a sweep once your key Pokemon is out of the way. I understand that ethically, it's going to open up a path no one wants to go, but Uber itself is also a metagame, and by any rights has their own rules to make things interesting.


Oh well. I myself am a monotype team guy and my favorite Pokemon are mostly UU and RU so I'm not really taken aback by all these bans. I might also flip out if suddenly Drapion is banned (I knew my panties were in a humongous bunch when they banned Future Fusion and limited Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon before), so I'd rather not speak too much of the current situation.

Slivendiferious wrote:

DreamSword wrote:

Then here's an idea. Contribute to their tiers discussion so that way there's a chance of the Mons you think shouldn't be banned aren't, you know, banned

Yeah that would work if there simply weren't so many people with that trademark Smogon mentality.

Because such biased talk puts you so much above them, doesn't it?

What you don't seem to understand about Smogon is that it, like almost every other community ever, is composed of various people with different ideas. Were you to actually present your arguments for or against certain ideas, more than likely people would to willing to, you know, discuss them.

But hey if it's easier for you to just label an entire site a bunch of nimrods and get pissy over something that shouldn't have any effect on you in the first place, by all means.

...I just hatched and trained a Shiny Honedge with competitive IVs and evolved it into Aegislash not too long ago. Dammit, I want my new Shiny to have her time in the spotlight. -_-

King Cat the Sixth wrote:

I knew my panties were in a humongous bunch when they banned Future Fusion and limited Red Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon before

Ikr.

Ban FGD instead and bring back Future Fusion pls
It's all Chaos Dragon's fault >__>

Augla wrote:

...I just hatched and trained a Shiny Honedge with competitive IVs and evolved it into Aegislash not too long ago. Dammit, I want my new Shiny to have her time in the spotlight. -_-

You do not have to abide by Smogon rules
And as said, nothing is set in stone..... yet....

DreamSword wrote:

Because such biased talk puts you so much above them, doesn't it?

What you don't seem to understand about Smogon is that it, like almost every other community ever, is composed of various people with different ideas. Were you to actually present your arguments for or against certain ideas, more than likely people would to willing to, you know, discuss them.

But hey if it's easier for you to just label an entire site a bunch of nimrods and get pissy over something that shouldn't have any effect on you in the first place, by all means.

Ha! We are talking about Smogon here, going against their rules offend them in such way that make you the devil. I've been kicked countless time argumentating their shenanigans on Showdown main chat and if even bother to read their forum you will see what I'm talking about.

The problem with Smogon is that 80% of the community follow their meta and a lot of stupid ban reason.

Arn wrote:

DreamSword wrote:

Because such biased talk puts you so much above them, doesn't it?

What you don't seem to understand about Smogon is that it, like almost every other community ever, is composed of various people with different ideas. Were you to actually present your arguments for or against certain ideas, more than likely people would to willing to, you know, discuss them.

But hey if it's easier for you to just label an entire site a bunch of nimrods and get pissy over something that shouldn't have any effect on you in the first place, by all means.

Ha! We are talking about Smogon here, going against their rules offend them in such way that make you the devil. I've been kicked countless time argumentating their shenanigans on Showdown main chat and if even bother to read their forum you will see what I'm talking about.

The problem with Smogon is that 80% of the community follow their meta and a lot of stupid ban reason.

Then, again, if that's the case(which I doubt considering I've browsed their forums before), do something very, very, simple.

Play with other people who don't follow their rules, and ignore Smogon entirely.

It's pretty easy all things considered.

Arn wrote:

Ha! We are talking about Smogon here, going against their rules offend them in such way that make you the devil. I've been kicked countless time argumentating their shenanigans on Showdown main chat and if even bother to read their forum you will see what I'm talking about.

The problem with Smogon is that 80% of the community follow their meta and a lot of stupid ban reason.

Well, you're in their turf, so obviously you're dealing with their followers. It's like joining Reservia hoping to share your sentiments of hating jRPG and idolizing Modern Shooter.

And imho, those who lurk around Showdown chats are usually sheeps and trolls. What DreamSword suggested was to join the forum and contribute to the banlists/sets with statistical data and civilized discussion. Which definitely works better than crying on another forum about Smogon suckagery without the actual competitive community to enlighten you about the issue.

I myself frequent the forum, and unless the thread is an obvious flamebait, the discussions can go into so much depth that I can't see anymore.

@Augla: Smogon's not the official rule, so don't give a damn about what others told you to play with on your own cartridge.

My friends and I play by Smogon rules because we're sheep like that. XD; But seriously, it does help us bring new Pokemon into play if we go by their ban list.

I just hope somebody has enough sense there to realize that banning what's probably the most strategic Pokemon brought to the table this generation is a bad idea.

Spinda is so good.....

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogondoubles-146079220

PRAISE SPINDA

Falcom and I squared off in perhaps the most epic way possible.



Whimsicott and Talonflame.

Eternal enemies.

Had to be done.