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 Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS

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Prinny

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu May 29, 2014 3:57 pm

GAMECUBE ADAPTER FOR WIIU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMQySEjyCUw&feature=youtu.be

http://abload.de/img/msxh0bj1sch0easlydrst5ufu.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu May 29, 2014 4:35 pm

Is this real life?

Or is it just 10 year old hardware refusing die?

(Not that I'm complaining.)

Still making the Pro Controller even more redundant, though. At this point you honestly might as well axe it and let Wii Classics do the job.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu May 29, 2014 5:23 pm

Sakurai contradicting himself and making newer controllers obsolete for his SSB games since 2008.

I really dislike this, and I hope the 3DS version handles well.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu May 29, 2014 9:58 pm

This is some Guitar Hero/Rock Band level of peripheral fuckery. So if you've got a Wii U, you'll want a Wii Remote for most multiplayer games and for backwards compatibility, plus a nunchuck (hell, maybe a set of two if you want to play any multiplayer Wii games,) then you might want a real controller for a second player or if you don't like the tablet and you can either get a Pro controller or the Gamecube adapter and a Gamecube controller.

Now how long do you think it'll be before Nintendo releases Gamecube games via the Virtual Console, and some will require the adapter because the Wii U's triggers aren't pressure-sensitive? Is that Smash-branded controller an official Nintendo re-release or what?

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 12:46 am

Taiyz wrote:

Now how long do you think it'll be before Nintendo releases Gamecube games via the Virtual Console, and some will require the adapter because the Wii U's triggers aren't pressure-sensitive? Is that Smash-branded controller an official Nintendo re-release or what?

What Gamecube games need the pressure sensitive triggers? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Metal Gear Solid Twin Snakes, and that's only to make up for the two missing shoulder buttons they used in the original version (basically pressing it all the way in was like L2/R2, not pressing it all the way was like L1/R1).

Nintendo revealed the adapter at the end of that video. They have yet to say anything else about it or that controller.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 5:12 am

Off the top of my head I know Super Mario Sunshine. I'd wager that they'd mostly be first-party titles.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 3:15 pm

I don't know about you guys, but my Gamecube controller isn't really in condition for Smash Bros. It wasn't even in condition for Smash when Brawl came out, which is why I learned how to play Smash with the classic controller and the wii-mote + nunchuck.

All that aside, is there any possibility that they will make the Wii-U backwards compatible with the Gamecube, or is that just not in the hardware?

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 4:08 pm

I'm going to assume the U's drive lacks the parts to center Cube discs like the Wii's did, and even if it did you would need memory card ports.  You need physical ports, otherwise the time spent working on a workaround would be better spent on a straight-up emulator for Shop games.

Remember, the last time a physical-media based workaround was attempted, we got the 360's backwards compatibility, well-intended and pretty darn spectacular for what it was trying to accomplish, but hokey and incomplete.  Nintendo has zero incentive to do any better, particularly since the games are two hardware generations removed.  Particularly given that Gamecube games might just be the safest and most preserved game format on earth; over 100 million Wiis were sold, and at its safe to bet at least 60%, if not more, of those units are BC.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 4:54 pm

I didn't consider the memory card issue. There goes that pipe dream.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 4:59 pm

I'm sure they could figure out a way of storing Gamecube saves in the Wii U's hard drive, I mean the Vita and PS3 do that with the emulated PS1 games. Do you need PS1 memory cards for PS1 backwards compatibility on the PS3? (With real discs.)

It's the disc drive and emulation solution that are the issue.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 6:03 pm

As you just said, there the PS1 Classics analogy doesn't work since there's still the hardware barrier of the discs. Emulation still isn't a sure thing, either, given that the PS1 and PS3 are another order of magnitude apart in complexity and hardware needs than the Gamecube and Wii U- the PS1 and Gamecube could emulate the N64 and PS1 no hassle. That said, a Gamecube Virtual Console would probably just run at 480p anyway, which would look fine enough running through HDMI, and I would think the Wii U could pull that much off.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 7:27 pm

Er, I'm pretty sure I established all that.

I said that,
A) the memory cards are not an issue as they can be handled digitally, like the PS3 and Vita do with digital PS1 titles, and like the PS3 does with actual PS1 discs (the latter I'm not entirely sure about.) Presumably the same rules apply for PS2 Classics and old PS3s that can handle most PS2 games.

B) The only problem is how to run the actual game. Regardless of whether they got an add-on for a Gamecube disc drive or went with the Virtual Console, they would need an emulation solution which would be a major problem.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri May 30, 2014 9:24 pm

I know, I was being redundant.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:00 am

Just to make it separate from E3 stuff:




And Mii Fighters, but they have no trailer. I still hope Snake comes back.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:40 am

That bit at the end with Game and Watch was really cute.

I'm still gonna be disappointed if Snake isn't in this somehow, but man this is a great roster.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:57 am

I'm pretty convinced we're not going to get a third FE representative.

It's obvious why Pac Man was put in the roster, and I can also understand Palutena, but I'll rant: Seriously? That girl is weaker than Zelda. She only got her fame from general fan art and the fanservice anime short. While she is a goddess(with a bad fashion taste), I still have a tough time seeing her as a fighter, especially with those attacks, she seems to be a jack-of-all-trades...and that does not bode well for balance reasons.

Granted, I did not play Kid Icarus: Uprising but that cheesy reveal trailer only reminded me of her character and it irritated the hell out of me, but as I said, I was able to find the reasons they put her in. One, is that Sakurai did help, if not, played a large part in the development of KI: U.


Also:
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:31 pm

Incredibly necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:12 pm

I'm pretty sure Palutena is to Sakurai as Lightning to Toriyama: their fantasy waifu.

Also, new character reveal on Monday - git hype.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:16 pm

CP please shut up, you're making me upset. =(

Play Kid Icarus Uprising, it's basically just Palutena and Pit talking shit back and forth and the script is incredibly self-aware. It's not just that she's got a big ass and a lotta fan porn to back her up. That's just the icing on the Palutena cake.

And that anime short was awesome, it was the only really worthwhile one of the three they did (why they didn't do a short 12 episode cartoon of Kid Icarus, I really don't know, they could have easily with slapstick shit like that.)

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:51 pm

Let's be realistic here: there are A LOT of lonely Japanese game developers... And they are really good at projecting their imagination to escape a miserable, materialistic lifestyle.

Writers, designers, animators; it's more common than you think for them to fetishize certain elements into their creation out of repressed desire. No matter how professional you act, your lustful desire can sneak in at anytime during your creative process. Take the old animation, Totally Spies for example...actually nevermind, that show was meant to be fetishized.

...Hell, the guy behind One Piece allegedly has a foot fetish and married a professional Nami cosplayer.

While I doubt Sakurai was 100% behind the anime short of Palutena's character reveal, those "fanservice" bits during her reveal and how she plays somewhat of a potentially OP 'jack-of-all-trades' character got me a little suspicious on what this famed game developer sees of her.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:30 pm

See the thing is I think you're overvaluing the input these guys have into how the characters look. There are a lot of moving parts in these games, and the directors end up as a figurehead for all of it, which may or may not be true. Particularly when it comes to all these animated shorts, the anime shorts probably have their own directors separate from the development team, not to mention that all of them were made by separate studios (the two anime ones were both by Studio 4c I believe.) This is one of the main reasons why I dislike these "waifu" accusations you keep making. Sure, some directors meddle a lot with the main characters, but you're glossing over a lot of the work done by character artists and the game's designers.

To be honest though I don't think America's much better off. Both regions have their own strong, well-designed female characters, in America I think most women are just flat-out excluded rather than having tons of games with sexy female leads. Most women appears as second-string characters in western games or as co-leads, it's nice when you get a game like Assassin's Creed III: Liberation or Infamous: First Light, but then game journalists have to f*** that up by writing tons of articles about FINALLY, PLAYABLE WIMMNEZ THAT AREN'T WHORES, HOORAY


Now pointing fingers at somebody like Oda who is ENTIRELY responsible for One Piece, that makes sense. I mean Nami's tits just kept getting bigger and the characters in the One Piece universe have ridiculous proportions (both male and female,) and you can't really shift the blame from him. (Making fun of something like a foot fetish is kinda petty though. The cosplayer thing is goofy though so I'm in agreement with laughing that.)

Another example would be Yoshio Sakamoto's treatment of Samus and this whole Adam plot thread. Other M was just a disgusting narrarative through and through. The thing is, Adam in Fusion was an interesting concept, and part of writing a good story is that you can do a lot of things with words that you don't necessarily have to show, kinda like the flipside of "show, don't tell." There was emotion in Metroid Fusion, and even a survival horror element, all without making Samus a blubbering incompetent daddy's girl. We did not need Adam to become an actual character, and most of all Samus should never have been shown to be scared of Ridley. Fusion was perfectly self-contained and provided enough backstory...When you then go back and say HEY THIS IS ADAM AND THIS IS SAMUS' BACKSTORY, SHE DID THIS KOOKY THUMBS DOWN THING you're just being an attention whore of a writer, disrespecting the intelligence of your audience, and honestly I feel that Other M retroactively ruined Metroid Fusion, a game that I actually liked despite it being very linear and the community disliking that and the constant jabbering of Adam.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Fri Jul 11, 2014 11:32 pm

Sorry, Taiyz, CP is right. Japan has their female characters down to a science. They know if the combine X Personality/Background Story with Y Fetish/Physical Appearance they'll make Z character. Senran Kagura comes to mind.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:07 am

But that's not what he's talking about at all. He's talking about director's whoring out their characters, like how Tomonobu Itagaki called the DoA girls his daughters.

What I'm saying is that Palutena is a HORRID example of that, at least in the English version which had an incredibly self-aware script, she is not your typical anime goddess archetype.


Quite frankly what you just mentioned is basically what I was trying to get at, CP's trying to pile all the blame on the directors basically, when yes, a lot of the fetishization would likely be done without them on the project, like what you said. I mean hell, Nintendo designers told the Bayonetta Wii U dev team to leave out an undershirt for the Link costume because it didn't fit Bayonetta's character, they're no strangers to T&A.

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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:23 am

Taiyz wrote:
I mean hell, Nintendo designers told the Bayonetta Wii U dev team to leave out an undershirt for the Link costume because it didn't fit Bayonetta's character, they're no strangers to T&A.

How do we know that's not them being respectful of the way Platinum operates?  I think that has far more to do with leeway-induced gratitude to an unlikely alliance than a policy shift.  If Super Smash Brothers was not the threat to Nintendo's image they were initially concerned it might be, Bayonetta doesn't register at all.

I mean, yes, it can be subtle- Skyward Sword tried to give us a new take with a less austere Zelda and that, among other things, tripled the game's anime-esque vibe.  But if it's subtle, honestly its harmless.  If we want to place blame, let's place blame where we can actually place it clearly- on the porn-producing and consuming subset of Japanese gaming culture that Japanese developers have half-way cow-towed into having to appeal to keep sales.  New Palutena is nearly as harmless as any Pokemon female- and the occasional questionable clothing choice aside (Or a lot of Gen 5.  Fashion disasters can befall the males too), no one accuses Game Freak of sexualizing them out-of-bounds. Because they aren't- they're just selling to far too many people who have or have associated with people who've trained themselves to sexualize everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Smash Bros. Wii U and 3DS   Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:36 am

I would just like to throw in that if you're going to say, "Palutena is purely fanservice and is a completely weak character with little to no value" and then follow it up with, "I've never actually played the game she appears in," you probably shouldn't say the first sentence to begin with.

As Taiyz said, Kid Icarus: Uprising is Pit and Palutena constantly bantering, with the fourth wall ground into dust within the first three lines. But that aside, Palutena is the source of Pit's power. She even says as much in her reveal trailer, but in the game it's made more blatantly. Do you remember how Pit couldn't fly forever in Brawl? You know, his Up+B move? Yeah, that's because those fancy blue wings aren't his. They're Palutena's. Palutena is the only reason Pit can fly. Palutena is the one who sources the power for his arrows. Palutena basically gives Pit everything he has. She is a literal goddess. She is far from weak, and Pit is basically nothing without her.

Zelda, for the record, isn't weak either, though admittedly with her it varies from incarnation to incarnation. Ocarina of Time Zelda manipulated the entire plot and pretty much held Link's hand (as Sheik) as he went from Temple to Temple. Wind Waker Zelda was a freaking pirate captain who not only commanded an entire crew, but wielded the light arrows in the final battle. Twilight Princess Zelda didn't get to do much thanks to Midna's presence, but she still wielded light arrows in the final fight too. Spirit Tracks Zelda accompanies Link through the entire game, and so on and so forth.

Of course, battle prowess is not what makes a character weak or strong--there are different types of strength and in a narrative how a character is written is what truly determines their strength, rather than what they do--but since we're talking about a fighting game, I'll address that. Neither Zelda nor Palutena are weak. Especially not Palutena. Especially not her.

As far as the sexualization of female characters/fanservice designs goes . . . there is absolutely no denying that female characters are often reduced to fanservice, both in Japanese media and in western media. However, while it's unfortunate and, at times, gross, that doesn't automatically make the character poorly written, weak, or worthless. Design and character are two separate issues, in the sense that you can have a fantastically written character whose design oozes fanservice, while on the flip side you can have a terribly written character that isn't fanservice-y at all. One does not excuse the other, of course--characters being hypersexualized isn't okay just because they're written well--but one doesn't automatically negate the other, either. It's why I still have a tiny bit of hope that maybe, just maybe, the villain of Hyrule Warriors will end up being decent even though her design is absolutely gross. (Though what I've heard of her story also sounds gross, so I'm not holding out much hope. Just a tiny shred.)

So yes, there were fanservice shots of Palutena in that reveal trailer, but that doesn't make her nothing but eye candy that Sakurai only included because she rustles his jimmies in a nice way. If you played Kid Icarus: Uprising, you'd see that.

Anyway, the fanservice aspect of this conversation seems to be jumping a bit, so I'm not sure if my commentary will actually be helpful. But I wanted to tag Taiyz and defend Palutena because that woman is my goddess. I will always stand in service to Lady Palutena. Always. =|

(I would also sell my soul for a Kid Icarus anime, holy shit.)
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