Fall 2014 Anime Season (Taiyz's SAO hijack thread)

(Rage of Bahamut: Genesis)

FAVARO! FAVARO!

I swear, people love to scream his name I like that Rita girl! Unless the zombies! ^_^

So, is there anybody here who genuinely likes Sword Art Online? Just curious.

I

The cheerful opening and ending of Gundam G Reco are a trick!

Taiyz wrote:

So, is there anybody here who genuinely likes Sword Art Online? Just curious.

I like....the quality of the animation but that's about it really.

Taiyz wrote:

So, is there anybody here who genuinely likes Sword Art Online? Just curious.

I do. It gets my imagination going and makes me excited about my own Virtual Reality experiences in the future (since I'm sure VRMMORPGs will be a thing by the early and mid 2020s; the Oculus Rift is already geared up to be compatible with Second Life, which isn't an MMORPG but has a similar sense of scale), and I enjoy the sense of camaraderie (that's a hard word to spell) between the SAO survivors, as best showcased in the dungeon raiding sequences such as the just-finished Calibur story arc or that inter-season special released at the end of last year. I also appreciate that Reki Kawahara makes the technological changes in his stories sweeping and pervasive, rather than the world being the exact same aside from the series' defining gimmick (see: any mecha series where the world is exactly the same medically, socially, and technologically hundreds of years into the future aside from the fact that people now fight in giant robots) - little touches like Accel World showing solar power as a prominent energy source in the world of 2046.

I'm a much bigger fan of Accel World, though, Kawahara's other series.

Taiyz wrote:

So, is there anybody here who genuinely likes Sword Art Online? Just curious.

It's a HUUUUUUUGE love-hate relationship
I love the MMO theme and setting, and the action is enjoyable.
I HATE about half the cast, with a like/hate relationship with stu Kirito, and detest Yui with a burning passion, whenever she talks I could pour lead into my ears. MAMAPAPAMAMAPAPAMAMAPAPAMAMAPAPAMAMAPAPA
Needless fanservice is also a minus, but after I turn off I brain and stop taking everything so seriously I can learn to enjoy the small things, like so.

Yes, did I mention that I like the NTR in SAO? It's funny as heck.

Dr. Casey wrote:

I'm a much bigger fan of Accel World, though, Kawahara's other series.

I cannot stand AW, but that's just me.

Dr. Casey wrote:

Taiyz wrote:

So, is there anybody here who genuinely likes Sword Art Online? Just curious.

I do. It gets my imagination going and makes me excited about my own Virtual Reality experiences in the future (since I'm sure VRMMORPGs will be a thing by the early and mid 2020s; the Oculus Rift is already geared up to be compatible with Second Life, which isn't an MMORPG but has a similar sense of scale), and I enjoy the sense of camaraderie (that's a hard word to spell) between the SAO survivors, as best showcased in the dungeon raiding sequences such as the just-finished Calibur story arc or that inter-season special released at the end of last year. I also appreciate that Reki Kawahara makes the technological changes in his stories sweeping and pervasive, rather than the world being the exact same aside from the series' defining gimmick (see: any mecha series where the world is exactly the same medically, socially, and technologically hundreds of years into the future aside from the fact that people now fight in giant robots) - little touches like Accel World showing solar power as a prominent energy source in the world of 2046.

I'm a much bigger fan of Accel World, though, Kawahara's other series.

A wonderful post as always, I see!

Interesting, so I asked because I watched SAO and I really fucking enjoyed it. I share Dr. Casey's opinion and disagree with Falcom completely, as I quite like the characters, particularly Kirito's family (Yui is totes adorbs,) but he could definitely use some more bros like Klein and Agil (also seriously how can you enjoy that NTR shit, even if you're making fun of it, shit's gross homie.)

Much like Tenshi (if I'm not mistaken) I'm a big fan of well-done fantasy environments...But I also really like contemporary stuff. SAO hits a niche of having very contemporary people stuck in a living fantasy world; it doesn't fall into the less interesting fantasy tropes, and I still I get tons of delicious tavern music. Stuff like the mirror item that made the players look like their real selves also made the series more interesting, there were some concepts in the show that made me positively giddy, in an "oh my god they're actually doing THIS!? Amazing!" kind of way, whether it was something unique for an anime or a love letter to gamers.

And that's something about SAO in general. Typically I have a lot of pet peeves when it comes to really ambitious anime series', and both SAO and Attack on Titan were known to have issues with pacing. While I think that could be said for the second half of the first series, I think the stuff in Aincrad with the frequent time skips was VERY fresh and actually helped make a lot of the relationships feel more realistic (ignoring Lisbeth falling for Kirito after one day.)

SAO in general actually doesn't trigger any of my pet peeves, and sure, I don't think it's perfect because they could've fleshed out Aincrad a lot more and there are some elements/plot holes that they just never have the time to talk about and probably have very simple answers for, but this show pretty much had everything I wanted from it.

As an aside, action movies are something I have a major love-hate relationship with, because after teaming up for one day and fighting some gangsters, there's generally a sex scene, and the relationships of the characters just seem so fake. You might point a finger at Lisbeth for this, but I felt that the way her episode ended was satisfying, and she was important in establishing just how realistic these virtual worlds in the SAO universe are. Literally the ONLY thing I genuinely DID NOT like about SAO was the NTR shit.


The reason why I asked before blabbing is because the series does carry that "popular anime" stigma with it, where it was hugely popular, ended, and then the year after everybody seemed to hate it. The second half still doesn't seem to rate particularly high with people.

Personally I'm okay with the second half. I don't think it's bad, I just don't think it was as good as the masterpiece that was the Aincrad arc. Since the entire plot has to take place in a week, there's no time for world-building and the majority of the aforementioned plot-holes are here (this could've been a fansubber error, but they don't clarify why Kirito stops

Spoiler:

, it seems at first that he simply can't due to his items being "missing" but then he does it anyway so I guess he simply chose not to, to avoid GMs.) I definitely wouldn't blame people for disliking the immediate surge in real-world drama that breaks out, drama being something they took more time to spread out in the first half.

Ultimately I see the second half as more of a lead-up to more SAO. The ending of the first series really encapsulates that idea: sure ALO wasn't really developed, but it was important to establish the kind of problems going on in the real world and what would happen with VRMMORPGs as a whole, for SAOII to happen. One could even argue that ALO wasn't even the focus, so I think it's justifiable that a lot of its unique aspects like racial tensions get glossed over.


Honestly I feel like they could've made a 24 episode series just based on Aincrad, but I don't know if the rest of ALO would necessarily be interesting enough to make it any longer, but I think a lot could be said for spreading out some of that drama and fleshing out the mechanics (then again, I realize that Kawahara probably doesn't want Kirito to effectively start from level 1, mechanically or statistically, in every new game, we spent so much time learning about SAO already.)


I kinda knew that SAO would be special for me right when I started watching it (finally.) I really don't make time for anime anymore, unfortunately, focusing more on gaming right now. Tuesday night I had some time to spare and was being unproductive so I thought I'd watch the first one, well, it kind of leads into the second episode rather nicely so I thought why not? I was pretty much hooked after that and watched a quarter of the first series in that single night, and 4-6 episodes a night after (which might not be much for you guys but it is for me right now.) I finished the series last night, coincidentally on the earliest date that the anime timestamps establish in the SAO timeline (slightly annoyed it wasn't SAO's launch date, but oh well.) I also immediately felt a need to order the first half on blu-ray because I wanted it in my collection so bad, and hell, it's an excuse to watch it again immediately (I watched it subbed and in 480p so...)

Anyway I'm gushing at this point. I'm just glad I finally got around to seeing it, and wanted to make sure I didn't get ambushed by anime hipsters. XP

I liked SAO mostly because I love omnipotent male character, and not a pansy who freaks the shit out every two minutes. I love how he can keep his calm, choosing the most logical action to be taken, even if he had to abandon a friend. But he's not such a cold-hearted bastard with no remorse either, he deeply felt regret because of his selfishness of not bringing Klein with him that he willingly sacrificed himself to be called the Beater so that other Beta testers won't suffer. He cut himself off from others, worrying that those who gets close to him would suffer from isolation, and had to level up all by himself in dungeons where one slip up and he's gone forever. With no one to rely to in dire situation, he had to hone his reaction faster than everyone else, all day, erryday for about 2 years, of course he's going to be better than the average joe who always have someone backing them up or those casuals in other mmo. Calling him a stu really undermines his character because his strength is totally justifiable, not because of stat, but because he has always fought with his life on the line. Alone. Day and night. For 2 years.

I also really love SAO because of its usage of current technological terms that doesn't sound too bogus or made up. Being someone in the field of IT, I love the way Reki explained the technological terms (such as top-down and bottom-up AI, which chapter I coincidentally read when taking Artificial Intelligence subject)


but no one cares about mc nor technobabble durhurhur go scru urself kirito godhax gimme me more asuna/leafa/sinonon/lisbeth/silica.



I think you would definitely love Alicization arc, Taiyz, because of the real extensive world-building and big time span (a huge 10+ year tbh,

Spoiler:

) that focuses on the bits that actually matters. And you are right about the whole stuff leading up to a more fantastic arc, (or hell, to Accel World even, because Incarnate System) at least that's how I perceived it. The last arc kinda ties in a lot of things rather satisfyingly for me.

About not dual-wielding, Ymir, the company that took over Alfheim Online and integrates SAO into it simply removed that feature(dual wield and holy sword, and probably a whole lot other skills that Kayaba made because he's awesome) because it's not really fair for others.

In Calibur, he didn't really dual wield(well not the secret skill). He's just making use of a loophole to cancel post skill delay by activating another sword skill on the left hand.

For me though, Kirito's dual wielding is more of a clincher than a default state. Sure he can dual wield, but he rather not show it in front of everyone and Reki usually only have him dual wield in decisive fights, to show that "now shit's getting real", like dual wielding leafa's borrowed sword vs Salamander general, or dual wielding gun and sword vs red eyes xaxa, and

Spoiler:

I personally liked it more that way as it gives out the feeling of "kitaaaa" when it's finally comes out.

Ymir also reset his skills and level so I wouldn't expect him to have it anyway.

I do agree that it should be reserved for more decisive fights, but the problem is that he just used it consistently toward the end of the Aincrad arc, since they were done their world-building at that point (ignoring the slice of life episodes.) The GM excuse in ALO just seemed kinda awkward when there are like two fights before he starts doing it again. After what you've said I can understand the decision, it's a pacing issue with ALO unfortunately, and I figured SAOII would have a lot of world-building due to one of the new games being based on guns and presumably a bunch of other new mechanics.


BTW is SAOII separated into multiple arcs as well? I kinda want to marathon it, but it's not finished, so I'm curious if there's an initial arc I can marathon while waiting for the series to finish airing?


One thing I forgot to mention in my original post, and another reason why SAO is really special for me, is that it has a lot of really pleasant and decisive romance in it (again, ignoring the NTR shit which thankfully didn't impact their relationship anyway because he really just licked her face and smelled her hair. Are the novels more graphic in this depiction, BTW?)

Much like I stated earlier when it comes to romances in fiction, I really like it when characters are pretty honest about their relationship and that it's not all about sex. This is a problem in a lot of anime unfortunately, due to constant fanservice and haremization even despite there being a primary heroine. Although SAO definitely has a harem, they establish pretty quickly that Kirito's taken and he never even considers the other girls. The slice of life episodes I mentioned earlier also really made me happy because you don't really get to see animated characters just...Enjoying married life.

I doubt I'll ever see an anime series again that has a couple get together, get married, and then just hang out. Romance is usually used as punctuation in literature, the guy gets the girl, the end, or the romance is the POINT of the fiction and it has to be an ongoing cat and mouse chase to be entertaining...I love just a simple, straightforward romance that naturally happens as part of a greater storyline, and one that happens at a realistic pace.

Also the fact that Thinker and Yulier get married was a nice touch, but normally off-screen between-sequel relationships and marriages annoy me a bit.

Also that bit in the opening where it goes "I wanna always be with you" and Kirito is excitedly waiting for Asuna to serve a meal is incredibly heartwarming, I knew I was in for something special when I first saw that. In case it wasn't apparent, I definitely think this series might be my favourite anime now, at least tied with Natsume Yuujinchou.


I totally agree with your point about Kirito, and I can't really say it any better. I wouldn't even say he's omnipotent either, just really dedicated and knows a thing or two about computers (they kind of wave this off when their mother mentions that he got into computers like she did, and then some. The sequence with Yui bothered me at first, because a beta tester wouldn't necessarily know programming as well, but the above scene came after.)

It's a long-running theme in the series that in these games, stats ultimately govern your abilities, and he's consistently at a high level, but according to SAO's system, he's the player with the fastest reflexes, so it's not like he doesn't have skill to boot. There are definitely certain things you could argue, like how he should have won his duel with Heathcliff but couldn't land a hit on him later, or that there wasn't really a battle at the end of ALO (they explain this in Extra Edition, it's fitting that Sugou was ultimately defeated by his reliance on power stolen from another.)

The only thing that I felt was really a cop-out was the whole yellow-eyed nonsense involving human will, that's definitely some deus ex machina (he also gets the yellow eyes in ALO for no explained reason, unless they were required for that weird Sword Skill he somehow used.)

I also just like his outlook on MMORPGs in general. Kirito's a good character and I think his strength is pretty well-justified compared to most anime of the same kind. He's also consistently powerful, unlike most shounen anime that have the protagonist get beaten up for an hour and then realize the enemy's weakpoint and win with one punch (hello Index S2.)

Just to note that people can dual wield in ALO, I think Leafa mentioned that someone wielded a dagger and sword, but never two swords because it's just impractical. But never Dual Wield Sword Skill (Star Burst Stream, Double Circular) because that's exclusive to SAO...for now. Unless I'm totally missing your point, sorry.

To be honest, I remember Sugou being creepy and touchy with Asuna, but I didn't remember him being that creepy with licking tears and whatnot. But it's probably just me mentally blocking that kind of stuff and only focus on Kirito vengeful kicking ass.

Spoiler:

I don't mind the romance. Of course, my ideal situation would be leaving the girls hot and bothered for another adventure, or polygamy (mushoku tensei whee), but it is fresh seeing canon marriage instead of dumb protag that is indecisive and immature. It's just fun seeing girls falling for him right and left but ultimately ends in the friendzone.

Spoiler about yellow eye willpower shenanigan.

Spoiler:

Yeah I don't think they really touch on that in the anime, but then again nobody makes a big deal out of him dual-wieldng anyway, but he does appear to use a sword skill at the end because there are these black and green symbols that appeared at the tip of his and Leafa's swords when he does the Giga Drill Breaker-esque move to reach the top of Yggdrasil.

That's REALLY depressing that there's more NTR shit. I had heard somebody bring up rape or sexual assault in SAOII but I was hoping they were just talking about the Sugou stuff. Would you mind spoiling what happens briefly? I don't need context, just what happens to which character. I would search myself but I don't want to spoil anything more than that (I've been ignoring most of your spoiler text, only skimming for what's relevant,) I just want to be able to brace myself for disgust, basically.

So is Accel World an eventual sequel to SAO or something? I never looked into it because I can't take the protagonist's appearance seriously. It's kind of the opposite of one of my favourite aspects of SAO, from what I've seen of Accel World the protagonist looks way different in VR, but I dug how the characters in SAO look just like themselves.

Dr. Casey wrote:

I'm a much bigger fan of Accel World, though, Kawahara's other series.

*high-fives Dr. Casey*
There's a lot wrong with Accel World, I admit (plotholes everywhere) and a lot that people won't like it for, but I love it regardless. Yes, the main character is constantly whiney and seemingly a worthless loser, but this is one of those stories about figuring out you aren't worthless and are capable of far more than you think you are.

Taiyz wrote:

So is Accel World an eventual sequel to SAO or something? I never looked into it because I can't take the protagonist's appearance seriously. It's kind of the opposite of one of my favourite aspects of SAO, from what I've seen of Accel World the protagonist looks way different in VR, but I dug how the characters in SAO look just like themselves.

Accel World takes place a certain number of years after SAO (I don't know how many). The NerveGear and AmuSphere are the predecessors of the Neurolinker in Accel World - and tbh the Neurolinker is way more awesome as it has all sorts of uses in everyday life. It's like having the menus in SAO (well, more like an ENTIRE OPERATING SYSTEM full of hovering menus and shit) available to you IN REAL LIFE at all times, and there's no bulky headset - all you need is this little thing attached to the back of your neck. At any time you can dive into a virtual space, at which point using a Neurolinker is much like a NerveGear or AmuSphere in that it has completely taken over your senses instead of merely augmenting reality.

Quote :

but he does appear to use a sword skill at the end because there are these black and green symbols that appeared at the tip of his and Leafa's swords when he does the Giga Drill Breaker-esque move to reach the top of Yggdrasil.

I don't think that's a Sword Skill because Sword Skill was only brought back after Sugou's arrest and Ymir's takeover of Alfheim Online. That's probably just the animator's way to overglorify Kirito's breakthrough because Kirito can only imitate SAO Sword Skill in pre-Ymir ALO, but all the moves are done by himself and without the system's assistance (for example, when fighting the Salamander general, he does a Horizontal Square iirc)


To be honest, the NTR/Rape stuff never actually happens because big damn heroes saving the day. I mean, no actual ...err...insertion? Attempted rape sure, but no less heartbreaking and traumatizing. The heroes always get their shit on time and proceed to stab/knee-to-the-face/dismember the assailants, however, so all is well.

Reki takes the whole rescuing damsels in distress trope and spice it with actual psychological impact to make the heroes so heroically manly. Though feminists might disagree and hate these portraying of females as weak, it is very satisfying for me.

In SAOII, there's this scene from Summer 2014 Anime thread which sums it up precisely, but yeah, assault but no insertion. He just pushes her down and screams her name while drooling. Creepy as f***.



About Accel World being a sequel, it's more a spiritual successor that takes place in the same universe after SAO. Other than the ones Tenshi listed, IIRC in Mother Rosario, Kirito talked about some day virtual reality entity can exist in the same place as real world in an area as he shared with Asuna and Yui about his ambition on becoming an electronic engineer or something. Partially because he want Yui

Spoiler:

, who can't leave digital space to be with them at all time.

And there's speculation about Kuroyukihime being Kirito's daughter, or at least descendant. Because black hair, asuna's eyes, dual wield, and the fact that her real name is still unknown.

I'm not really sure about this, but I remembered reading something about Star King in Accel World.

Spoiler:

And of course, Incarnate System.

Rita, I didn't know you could do this!

I'm a Zombie.

Best explanation ever >_>

It's not even a feminism thing, I'm perfectly okay with damsels, especially in SAO because the girls save Kirito almost as much as he saves them (not necessarily by becoming sword-fighting gamer gods though,) but attempted rape just feels like a tasteless way of dialing up the tension. I mean, I don't think I've seen sexual assault in a shounen anime with a kiss or insertion either (tongue, finger or otherwise,) it's always just drooling weirdos who lick the girls' skin and undress them a bit (BTOOOM! is another example, second episode) but it's still a very disgusting atmosphere. Whenever that kinda shit's going on, I always feel this pit in my stomach. I dunno, it's like I have a fear of rape but for OTHER people.

At the very least, I'm glad with the way you communicated that, it makes me dread the Alicization moment less if what you said is true. Thanks!


Also I think you're right about the sword skill thing, because he does get the yellow eyes for that moment (they kind of blew it though, when he got the yellow eyes minutes earlier and did nothing with them.)

BTW are the SAO novels still going strong? I have no idea how much material is left and whether it's continuing.


Anyway, I'm gonna stop asking questions about the future and wait to experience the rest of this wonderful show myself.

Though, again, is there a good "break" point in SAOII, like a separation between story arcs? I don't want to watch up to an odd number like 17 and then have to wait each week for more.

The web novel version has ended, but the light novel is still ongoing, it's about halfway through the Alicization arc (and it's already 5 volumes whereas other arcs are 2 volumes at most!). I don't really mind though because I can see that Reki puts in more effort flourishing the plot and other details in the light novel version.

Like my calculation in the other thread,1 arc = 2 volumes = 1 cour. Alicization halfway = 5 volumes. Alicization full = 10 volumes = 5 cours. There's still plenty to go by, unless the animator's going to compress everything into 2 cours season.


There is also another (web?) novel series named SAO Progressive. It details Kirito's time in SAO (the game) chronologically and adds some extra episodes that describes more of SAO (the game) game mechanics. But no one cares durhurhur


For SAOII, GGO arc is from episode 1 to 14, Calibur arc is episode 15 to 17. The rest is Mother Rosario I suppose. Episode 17 is a good episode to take a break I guess.

I love how I brought up a seemingly random number like 17 and it ended up being the end of a story arc. >_>

That's perfect, because I think that was last week's episode?

King Cat the Sixth wrote:

There is also another (web?) novel series named SAO Progressive. It details Kirito's time in SAO (the game) chronologically and adds some extra episodes that describes more of SAO (the game) game mechanics. But no one cares durhurhur

SO I WAS RIGHT THEY COULD MAKE A FULL SERIES OUT OF THE AINCRAD ARC

THIS IS THE BEST THING

What's this about a web novel though, does Kawahara just post chapters to a blog or what?

He wrote SAO for the web novel first before getting licensed and published as light novel. The light novel series currently being published is a reworked version of his web novel.

Basically, he wrote SAO for a contest, but wrote too long and over the page limit so he didn't enter it into the contest. Decided to publish it on the web instead and update it periodically until a publisher approached him to publish SAO after he won a contest (he wrote Accel World for that contest).

And I was wrong about Progressive being a web novel though, it's also already been published (2 volumes so far) and the English(I think) version will be available February 2015.

Have any of the novels actually been localized? Like, officially.

Yen Press has localized the first two volumes and will release the third in December. Judging by the release so far, each volume will be published every four months. Yen Press also the one who obtained the license right to localize SAO Progressive.

Of course, there's also fan translators, but after Yen Press licensed SAO, they took down their translations as support. I managed to salvage the pdf of all volumes so far...for comparison purpose. Yeah.

Denki-gai is my Nozaki of this season.

Hilarious and has better romance than the anime that shall not be named, cause everyone apparently loves it here.

(Take cover)

Watched the first 4 episodes of SAOII, a lot of setup in this season. I found it kinda funny how Asuna's excuse to disuade Kirito from converting his character was "but your items...!" when they have a shared bank account and he could just give her everything before converting.

I also noted that after King Cat brought up him using Horizontal Square while fighting the salamander general in ALO, he does it again without sword skills while testing the photon sword. It also reminded me that he used the skill several times in SAO but never actually mentioned its name.

DylDawg wrote:

Hilarious and has better romance than the anime that shall not be named, cause everyone apparently loves it here.

(Take cover)

We know you said SAO dawg.

I don't remember if ALO had marriage and item share storage, King Cat can probably clarify that.
And Taiyz yeah, he never shouts out any of his Sword Skills save Starburst Stream. The LNs are usually more detailed in those regards but that's a different topic. Would also like to know which arc is your favorite.